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Thread: WRC future

  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    tour bus are good for, well, tours! they move every day to another place. service park stays in the same place for a week, and is easier to ship a bunch of metal stick to the other side of the world than a bus.

    btw, not certain, but some of the tour bus/motorhome can be more expensive or at least same price as msport service park (made of trucks and tents)

    "The price tag new? Busses like this run 500,000 euros"
    Hyundai House is made of over 10 trailers full of those "metal sticks"
    so shipping a bus is lot cheaper.

    Look what WRC2/3/JWRC teams have in service park, they don´t need fancy houses.

    One big problems is that Service Parks have been very popular for spectators, more people visiting than any of stages. Big moneys involved.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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  3. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    Hyundai House is made of over 10 trailers full of those "metal sticks"
    so shipping a bus is lot cheaper.

    Look what WRC2/3/JWRC teams have in service park, they don´t need fancy houses.

    One big problems is that Service Parks have been very popular for spectators, more people visiting than any of stages. Big moneys involved.
    A factory WRC team is 80-100 people all in depending on the event and they need to work, rest and eat for up to a week! They do this 14 times per year. A bus is not an option!
    There are also guests and the whole thing is at the end of the day a marketing exercise so it has to look nice as well.
    Most of the teams have found a good compromise of cost / time / portability that fits their needs in the current format.
    Enough buses would be considerably more expensive and extremely impractical compared to what everyone is using now.

    Personally, I would like to see the events travel around a little bit and be able to visit more towns. Like has been done in GB with Newtown tyre fitting, but make it more of a service with a few pop up tents and a limited amount of spare parts. The teams already have recce support vans with the needed kit in them. This is grossly oversimplified but something like this is achievable.

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  5. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    Hyundai House is made of over 10 trailers full of those "metal sticks"
    so shipping a bus is lot cheaper.

    Look what WRC2/3/JWRC teams have in service park, they don´t need fancy houses.

    One big problems is that Service Parks have been very popular for spectators, more people visiting than any of stages. Big moneys involved.
    Metal stick scan fit in standard ship containers, buses ( how many do you think you need btw) not really.

    wrc 2/3 also don't have manufacturer exposure standards and rewards in terms of audience, and don't have that much money to invest on, but they don't use buses anyway.
    this is the "not so fancy house" of skoda i. e.: https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/...inia-service2/

    the thing you call a big problem of service park, is what manus wants and pays for! for reasons well explained in the post just above.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    When I interviewed Iain Campbell (clerk of the course of Wales Rally GB) he also mentioned getting rid of the expensive service park buildings as a primary way to reduce costs. He also mentioned that the current buildings need a very large area to be put up.

    "Standardise the service area setups that can be easily transferable by one transportation company. The Hyundai set up is beautiful but takes a team over a week to build and then four days to dismantle. “
    https://itgetsfasternow.com/2020/06/...in-three-days/

    Bear in mind that making a WRC event travel to broader areas has other issues such as the regional support/partnership, longer recce times, more use of single-run stages requires more stage marshalls etc. which increases the costs. In addition, the teams have already complained that having a remote tyre change area is too expensive - they have to rent a van for it!

    As for the bus thing, servicing a team of bicycles probably takes less tools and premises than servicing a team of WRC cars...
    Last edited by AnttiL; 8th July 2020 at 23:07.

  8. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    As for the bus thing, servicing a team of bicycles probably takes less tools and premises than servicing a team of WRC cars...
    I don't think anybody's suggesting that the cars will be towed to events behind team buses, loaded up with some spares... I think this idea is being taken too literally. You'd have a coach or a more easily relocatable hospitality unit attached to a truck for team and corporate facilities. You'd have trucks for some equipment. You'd have simple gazebos for service areas and team catering. This is how servicing has been done before. This is how many privateer teams still operate. It's pretty much how the WRC teams work at tests.

    Basically, they don't need to be building facilities the size of car showrooms to service their cars. Particularly on Rally GB, where you haven't even been allowed inside the Hyundai Palace in the service park as a member of the public and can barely see the cars from outside!!!

    EDIT: Personally I don't actually mind them having a central service park, where the can build whatever facilities they like. I just want them to facilitate organisers having the option of having one overnight remote service, on some events in a season, at least. You could achieve a lot more with events like the Monte and Rally GB with just that amount of flexibility. I do wonder what the teams would have made of Rally GB's proposed 2020 schedule.
    Last edited by the sniper; 9th July 2020 at 03:13.

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  10. #636
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    The cost of the service park is not an issue.
    A truck and a tent will do. Everything else is not because they need it, but because they want it to be that big and expensive.

    Hyundai has a huge press hospitality area next to their service area. They have 2 complete trailers, just for that.
    M-sport can probably do their full service with that material.

  11. Likes: pantealex (9th July 2020)
  12. #637
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
    I don't think anybody's suggesting that the cars will be towed to events behind team buses, loaded up with some spares... I think this idea is being taken too literally.
    I didn't mean that, I meant the actual servicing during the event. Just think about tyres and fuel alone, it takes a lot more lugging of gear if you decide to have remote servicing. And the WRC2/3/JWRC/privateers need to be able to do that as well.

    You'd have a coach or a more easily relocatable hospitality unit attached to a truck for team and corporate facilities. You'd have trucks for some equipment. You'd have simple gazebos for service areas and team catering. This is how servicing has been done before. This is how many privateer teams still operate. It's pretty much how the WRC teams work at tests. .
    The current rules state in the road book where the service area is, whether it's a remote tyre change or the actual service park. Back in the old days of free service, the team and the co-driver spent a huge amount of work preparing a service plan, looking for areas suitable for remote services, asking permissions for houseyards and such. I wouldn't go back to that anymore, but some sort of open areas would still be needed for the remote services. I mean, if you remember the early service parks from the late 90's when you still had many of them? But this would still mean some trucks driving around the rally route, in possible traffic jams. Also, when a WRC team comes in for a test of one car, they have a good bit of equipment and trucks with them.

    This solution would also mean the media has to go remote as well. Most of the reporters who are at a WRC event don't really leave the service park during the event. They are there waiting for the media zones and writing stories in the meantime.

    From the angle of the event organizers, they would have another "special stage" to arrange, this remote service area would need also marshalls and other personnel, which are not so easy to find these days. You can't assume you can just transfer the main service park marshalls to the remote service park.

    you haven't even been allowed inside the Hyundai Palace in the service park as a member of the public and can barely see the cars from outside!!!
    Would you think now otherwise, had you been allowed inside

    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    The cost of the service park is not an issue.
    A truck and a tent will do. Everything else is not because they need it, but because they want it to be that big and expensive.

    Hyundai has a huge press hospitality area next to their service area. They have 2 complete trailers, just for that.
    M-sport can probably do their full service with that material.
    Limiting the service park hospitality is an interesting topic because it is not in the sporting regulations...the teams have chosen that it's worth the investment and the event organizers are happy to sell the tickets.

    Again: as a route enthusiast I wouldn't mind using remote servicing to get some longer and more interesting routes but I just understand it comes with challenges.

  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I didn't mean that, I meant the actual servicing during the event. Just think about tyres and fuel alone, it takes a lot more lugging of gear if you decide to have remote servicing. And the WRC2/3/JWRC/privateers need to be able to do that as well.
    Tyres and fuel are not an issue, the competitors don't bring those themself.

    Per car, everything needed for a short remote service will fit in a smal truck. You don't need a lot of people too, a limited number of mechanics is all.

    There is no real technical problem with remote services. I think it's just that the teams and organisers don't see much advantage in it.

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  15. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I didn't mean that, I meant the actual servicing during the event. Just think about tyres and fuel alone, it takes a lot more lugging of gear if you decide to have remote servicing. And the WRC2/3/JWRC/privateers need to be able to do that as well.
    I don't think remote service is a problem for privateers. I helped a team for Rally Portugal back in 2013 (privately owned S2000 car). Let me sum up only a few of the costs that are roughly the same for every privateer team (regardless where they come from):
    - Entry fee: roughly 4000 euros (I think)
    - Fuel for rally car: 5000 euros
    - Tyres: roughly 4500 euros
    Then there's the costs to get the service truck there, fly all team members, accommodation, recce car and fuel, food etc. Not even talking about running costs of the car itself. A few hundred euros for a rental van is not going to make a big difference for privateers, regardless of the car they drive.

    The only reason big teams don't like remote service is because their VIP-castles are going to be abandoned throughout the day, and it doesn't fit their plan. Rallying today seems to be all about serving a delicious meal to the guests and media invited by sponsors.

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  17. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommeke_B View Post

    The only reason big teams don't like remote service is because their VIP-castles are going to be abandoned throughout the day, and it doesn't fit their plan. Rallying today seems to be all about serving a delicious meal to the guests and media invited by sponsors.
    If the teams, sponsors, etc are happy with the current set up, then who are we to argue? However, they're simply not looking at other ways that might bring more value/exposure to each event/ the sport. What works in Finland, doesn't work in GB - but most of us have been saying that for years, it's become a broken record.

    It's no good people (the teams, Promoter) moaning about lack of interest from sponsors, manufacturers, media, etc when they don't/can't change.

    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

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