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Thread: WRC future

  1. #811
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0K...ju-OiQ&index=2
    Most of the sound in that vid is from tires (not sliding). Anyway that is tarmac, on fast gravel you only hear the gravel sounds. Remember that lack of sound is nothing new, N4 Evos were similar.
    EVs (and hybrids) is what is promoted by manufacturers in Europe. (WRC is very much European series, so much teams are even mandated by the rules to be based in Europe).
    If you want manufacturers in the sport it helps to have a vague resemblance to what they are trying to sell. This has historically been the main thing setting rallying appart from things like F1.
    Sure lately it's more about brand building, but building a brand on petrol while trying to promote EV/hybrid is difficult.
    Mate, I don't need to see videos as I've watched R5's on more than a dozen tarmac rallys since 2014 (and even more on gravel, btw).

    On the WRC future, all manus (apart VW) agreed on having Hybrids (using a main ICEngine) as the next step, so there's no reason to defend full EV's use at this point.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    The only motorsport on top level where fully electric, with todays battery tech can make a show is rallycross.

    Formula-e is boring, and the same in MotoGp with their version.

    Hybrid is a dead end, dont spend money develop it in rally. Maybe Hydrogen could work, but that is still not used by many manufacturers.

    So petrol is still the only logical way for rally.
    But todays top cars are to expensive, and fancy.

    i feel we are at a Group B moment in time, but before the accident.
    Take it down a notch, and use Rally2 as new top class.
    Maybe the Joker system need to be adjusted a bit, so cost do not spiral out of control. Max price need to be kept.

    it could bring more manus in, when cost is not that high, and they can sell cars to privateers.
    Number of top class cars will explode, in most WRC rounds, since there are so many cars out there, and they can now be bought for less than 100 00€ second hand.
    we can again get local boys that can copete with the grown ups, and bring back more dimensions to the championship than the 8-10 cars we have today.

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  5. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    The only motorsport on top level where fully electric, with todays battery tech can make a show is rallycross.

    Formula-e is boring, and the same in MotoGp with their version.

    Hybrid is a dead end, dont spend money develop it in rally. Maybe Hydrogen could work, but that is still not used by many manufacturers.

    So petrol is still the only logical way for rally.
    But todays top cars are to expensive, and fancy.

    i feel we are at a Group B moment in time, but before the accident.
    Take it down a notch, and use Rally2 as new top class.
    Maybe the Joker system need to be adjusted a bit, so cost do not spiral out of control. Max price need to be kept.

    it could bring more manus in, when cost is not that high, and they can sell cars to privateers.
    Number of top class cars will explode, in most WRC rounds, since there are so many cars out there, and they can now be bought for less than 100 00€ second hand.
    we can again get local boys that can copete with the grown ups, and bring back more dimensions to the championship than the 8-10 cars we have today.
    Can't agree more. And remember, even without the terrible corsica accident, the future of Gp.B was bleak - Everyone apart from Peugeot and Lancia would have dropped out because of too high costs / too high a barrier to entry for newcomers. This is why Gp.S was on the wings, simpler, cheaper formula. It's even better now as you point out because there is such a base of R5 cars out there ...

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post

    Hybrid is a dead end, dont spend money develop it in rally.
    Can you give more arguments for this?

    For me EV is the long distance future of WRC (in 10 years), and hybrid is a good bridge towards that. We need manufacturers to fund high level WRC, and having the word "hybrid" in the car model name might be crucial.

    Going to Rally2 as the main class would be going backwards in technology, and going towards something like ERC where the top drivers must fund their own programs. It could be inevitable, but I wouldn't plan on doing it.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 25th October 2020 at 20:49.

  7. #815
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post

    it could bring more manus in, when cost is not that high, and they can sell cars to privateers.
    When M-Sport builds a rally car and sells it, how much does the manufacturer get? I mean, do they care if their cars can be sold to privateers or not?

    I think most of you exaggerate how much the price of one car is in the budget of a manufacturer. If you keep everything as it is (3 top drivers per team, 14 rallies) but just change WRC to Rally2 cars, it doesn't reduce the overall budgets by that many percentages...
    Last edited by AnttiL; 25th October 2020 at 20:52.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Can't agree more. And remember, even without the terrible corsica accident, the future of Gp.B was bleak - Everyone apart from Peugeot and Lancia would have dropped out because of too high costs / too high a barrier to entry for newcomers. This is why Gp.S was on the wings, simpler, cheaper formula. It's even better now as you point out because there is such a base of R5 cars out there ...
    Group B wouldn't have continued alongside Group S. Group S would have replaced Group B for 1988. And most cars would have been just converted into Group S.

    Metro debuted in RAC 1985, Citroen in Monte 1986, Ford in Sweden 1986, Group B still attracted new teams, instead of teams dropping out.

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  11. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Group B wouldn't have continued alongside Group S. Group S would have replaced Group B for 1988. And most cars would have been just converted into Group S.

    Metro debuted in RAC 1985, Citroen in Monte 1986, Ford in Sweden 1986, Group B still attracted new teams, instead of teams dropping out.
    1980s were the golden age of motosport imo. Every manufacturer wanted to be a part of motosport and the effort they put into their projects was enourmous in terms of money and workforce.

  12. #818
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauri_J View Post
    1980s were the golden age of motosport imo. Every manufacturer wanted to be a part of motosport and the effort they put into their projects was enourmous in terms of money and workforce.
    What about 90's and the early 00's? I think it was quite similar. And there were still the big tobacco and alcohol sponsorships....you can't rewind the clock to those days.

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  14. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I think most of you exaggerate how much the price of one car is in the budget of a manufacturer. If you keep everything as it is (3 top drivers per team, 14 rallies) but just change WRC to Rally2 cars, it doesn't reduce the overall budgets by that many percentages...
    What about development costs and running costs? Not to mention there are already more manufacturers with Rally2 cars than WRCs.

    If we lose Hyundai then we’re down to MSport vs Toyota which on recent form isn’t much of a competition.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    Not to mention there are already more manufacturers with Rally2 cars than WRCs.

    If we lose Hyundai then we’re down to MSport vs Toyota which on recent form isn’t much of a competition.
    But how many manufacturer teams we have now that are running Rally2 cars? We only have M-Sport and Hyundai. VW is not a manufacturer team and likely never will be again. Skoda just ended their program and is under the same VAG policy as VW. Citroen, I'm not sure what kind of a deal they're running with Østberg. Toyota doesn't have a car yet.

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