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Thread: WRC future

  1. #741
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Without Manufacturers there are no cars for the privateers. Unless rallying is just going to be for 'historics' in future.
    That's not true. It's only a question of rules. Countless rallycars around the world were built without manufacturer involvement.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  3. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    That's not true. It's only a question of rules. Countless rallycars around the world were built without manufacturer involvement.
    True. Still cars are being created. Mellors Iriz, Holzer Corsa, Polish Proto Cars, Spanish N4s.

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Guys, as we discussed already in the past. It's unfortunately a fact that the society is changing and that the marketing value of motorsport will reasonably decrease in the future due to the very simple fact that promoting green energies via motorsport simply can not work becuase of the very principle that ecology and motorsport are oxymorons.
    Thatís a quite radical view.

    If this future LMDh sportcars class (for both the WEC and IMSA series) manages to get a handful of manus, as itís expected, itíll mean that manus are mostly concerned about motorsport programs costs, rather than questioning their interest.

    Manus are struggling to cope with lower emissions and autonomous driving costs; they must cut everywhere but thereís still room for motorsport, as long it become less expensive. A Rally2+ category using mild Hybrids could be the answer in Rally case.
    Rally addict since 1982

  5. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Guys, as we discussed already in the past. It's unfortunately a fact that the society is changing and that the marketing value of motorsport will reasonably decrease in the future due to the very simple fact that promoting green energies via motorsport simply can not work becuase of the very principle that ecology and motorsport are oxymorons. Most of the petrolheads who create largest part of the motorsport audience refuse green energies, especially electricity and the people who buy electric cars largely ignore or outright refuse motorsport as a whole.
    I wrote this to you over a year ago and it is even more relevant now. I write this as someone living in a country where 40-50% of all sold cars have been fully electric for quite a while as opposed to CZ which is on the opposite end of the scale. Electric car on the road is a norm here and the same is that everyone buys them, not just "eco-freaks".

    In the strict sense spending money/resources on any activity is a waste (if we go very strict then even living is a waste). Yet companies live by selling something and that something has to somehow attract buyers.

    To sell an electric cars these are the general themes:
    1. Buy electric cause it doesn't produce C02/NOX, PM etc..
    Any electric car fits that, doesn't matter if it uses 15 kWh/100km or 30
    2. Buy this car cause it's cool/fast/reliable etc...
    This works for any car, and if all cars are electric it is setting your car apart from the others that matters. (= main reason manus do motorsport now)

    So when most cars sold are electric (1.) you are back to (2.) which is essentially same situation as today. For electric cars specifically the argument can be that motorsport can be used to show how they can drive fast over longer distances and recharge fast.


    In detail:

    ....people who buy electric cars largely ignore or outright refuse motorsport as a whole.
    - Lot of "motorheads" now buy electric, here there is a general move from mid-performance BMWs and Audis (that make the bulk of their sales) to electric cars. Porsche Taycan sales worldwide vs rest of their range at the moment is another great example. Are those people buying Taycan people that outright refuse or ignore motorsport? Tesla also does a lot of their marketing based on acceleration numbers and now recently also on lap times (Plaid etc..).

    - "People who buy electric cars", given the current regulation trend this will be the majority of all people buying cars in a few years. The majority of the people will not magically change their nature. Or even simplier said, boys wont suddenly stop playing with cars, boys that are 5-6 years old now play with cars. 15-20 years from now they will be driving cars, maybe not for daily commute to work in a big city but for other transport or freetime activites.

  6. #745
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    That’s a quite radical view.

    If this future LMDh sportcars class (for both the WEC and IMSA series) manages to get a handful of manus, as it’s expected, it’ll mean that manus are mostly concerned about motorsport programs costs, rather than questioning their interest.

    Manus are struggling to cope with lower emissions and autonomous driving costs; they must cut everywhere but there’s still room for motorsport, as long it become less expensive. A Rally2+ category using mild Hybrids could be the answer in Rally case.
    But what you wrote directly confirms what I have written. The need for less cost means exactly that. The higer marketing value = more money to be spent. Less marketing value = less money to be spent.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  7. #746
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    But what you wrote directly confirms what I have written. The need for less cost means exactly that. The higer marketing value = more money to be spent. Less marketing value = less money to be spent.
    Nope; today’s principle is actually more for less.

    Again, manus overall budgets aren’t endless; those budgets are being consumed by huge investments on lower emissions and autonomous driving, but there’s still room for motorsport programs, as long they manage to offer more exposure for less money. That’s why FE was an immediate success and this new WEC/IMSA Hybrid class is also looking promising. Hard to see why that can't be achieved in the WRC.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 19th October 2020 at 16:07.
    Rally addict since 1982

  8. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Rally2 cars with 'Mild' hybrid only starting in 2023 will be so far behind the times I dont see the point for Manufacturers. How can they claim this proves their technology when it will have already been in road cars for years.
    I thought they were proposed for 2022?

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    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    I have no faith in Matton running anything. The disaster at Citroen and now he's overseeing this....

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  11. #749
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    I thought they were proposed for 2022?
    2022 is for the full-hybrid Rally1 cars, 2023 for the mild-hybrid Rally2.

  12. #750
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Countless rallycars around the world were built without manufacturer involvement.
    But not for WRC level and they even struggle for sales at national level.

    The large manus wont want to build even rally2 cars unless they provide a return on investment (unlikely) and promote their brand in a good way (nowadays thats eco-friendly).

    So that means those tiny companies mentioned by Macebig could be the future for having any new rally cars and a WRC.

    I can only see fully-electric cars as a 'proper' future for the sport long-term. And they will turn off as many old fans as they gain new ones.

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