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Thread: WRC future

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I beg to disagree here, I would claim the difference between Rally1 and Rally2 cars doesn't make that much of a difference in a yearly budget of a WRC team. It's more dramatic for privateers.
    For sure it's harder for privateers but the €/km cost difference of the cars will always be there, no matter who's running them. You've to consider the price difference of a GREngine or that of a transmission, suspension or any simpler, yet improved, part of a WRC car, regardind R5's, and besides the production costs of the components there's also their wear and rebuild expenses. At every test or rally day all those price differences will be reflected on each car running costs, becoming huge at the end of a season. The same applies to development.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    exactly. what's the point in evolving rally2 in something (current) rally1-ish?
    I believe no one is asking to make Rally2 cars to be like Rally1 cars; Rally2 are already close to pre-2017 WRC's performance but they cost only half of what a 2016 WRC was costing at the time. They mostly need to improve their reliability, changing some parts that are too close to production; it wouldn't take a fortune to do it and Rally2+ could work as a sensible Rally2 upgrade, a bit like Rally4/Rally5 cases.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 30th October 2020 at 23:48.
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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    For sure it's harder for privateers but the €/km cost difference of the cars will always be there, no matter who's running them. You've to consider the price difference of a GREngine or that of a transmission, suspension or any simpler, yet improved, part of a WRC car, regardind R5's, and besides the production costs of the components there's also their wear and rebuild expenses. At every test or rally day all those price differences will be reflected on each car running costs, becoming huge at the end of a season. The same applies to development.
    But at the same time some of the components will last longer, like the GRE engine. It was estimated that the cost of using Rally2 engines would be equal to using five times more expensive GRE engines, because you would need five times more of Rally2 engines during a season.

    I know that using Rally2 cars would be somewhat cheaper, you don't need to tell me that. I'm just not convinced that manufacturers are interested in putting down that money to promote something that's not in their marketing preference.

    I might be wrong though. We will never be able to say which one is better because we cannot have both classes be the main class at the same time. If one fails, we can always say that the other would have succeeded.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Thinking further, I think M-Sport would be the company that would benefit the most from going to Rally2 as the main class. They operate on a smaller budget than other teams and they would get direct promotion for the rally cars they sell the most and they are not relying on manufacturer funding or promotion plans.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 31st October 2020 at 07:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    exactly. what's the point in evolving rally2 in something (current) rally1-ish?

    The point is get a better and cheaper rally1... (that was only for T16!)
    Ha Ha - Still waiting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    I believe no one is asking to make Rally2 cars to be like Rally1 cars; Rally2 are already close to pre-2017 WRC's performance but they cost only half of what a 2016 WRC was costing at the time. They mostly need to improve their reliability, changing some parts that are too close to production; it wouldn't take a fortune to do it and Rally2+ could work as a sensible Rally2 upgrade, a bit like Rally4/Rally5 cases.
    not a matter of asking for it. it is way simpler. i ll try to say that again: if u upgrade a rally2, it will become some sort of rally1 type car. that's all. my point is: work on a real rally1 development, not a mild copy that you call rally2+. i understand that is made on budget premises, but manus already told it will make no difference.
    by the way, manus will invest same amount of money as rally1 in development and extras that will not really share with customers. privateers will remain a second tier completely as for '16 wrc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Ha Ha - Still waiting

    me too!
    hardest of the tasks (expecially in this global pandemic)

    then we can discuss what's the meaning for "better". i mean a regulation that help mantain this level of resonanceas a sport (or increase) and make manus (expecially new ones) happy to invest in it.

  10. Likes: T16 (31st October 2020)
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    me too!
    hardest of the tasks (expecially in this global pandemic)

    then we can discuss what's the meaning for "better". i mean a regulation that help mantain this level of resonanceas a sport (or increase) and make manus (expecially new ones) happy to invest in it.
    I genuinely feel like this thread and all the questions and potential solutions it has proposed, is probably not far off what the promotors and FIA are going over themselves.
    Feels like nobody knows what the best solution is for the sport right now.
    I wonder how it works behind the scenes. Are the promoters and FIA considering getting potential manufacturers and gauging their interest in the series if the regulations become X, Y or Z, or have they really committed to the 2022 regs in the hope that there may be new manus join the current crop.
    Trouble is, as we all know, that current crop is not looking as committed as they said they would be when the regs were drawn up.
    I just can’t see how they can plough on knowing they are potentially going to lose Hyundai as a team, never mind the fact that nobody else seems interested.
    If this is about saving face, then now isn’t the time. Hopefully they’ll see that they are going down the wrong path and start consultation to understand how manufacturers would use rallying successfully as a marketing vessel and use this to pave the way.
    The environmental aspect and now the pandemic have massively changed the face of motoring worldwide and rallying looks like it’s going to take a huge hit unless it can find a way to be part of motoring’s bigger picture going forward and not some private club for enthusiasts.
    This really is crisis time for the WRC and all indicators say that if they don’t make some drastic changes, they’ll get left behind.

  12. Likes: AndyRAC (31st October 2020),Katvala (31st October 2020),Rally Power (1st November 2020),RS (31st October 2020)
  13. #909
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    I wonder how it works behind the scenes. Are the promoters and FIA considering getting potential manufacturers and gauging their interest in the series if the regulations become X, Y or Z, or have they really committed to the 2022 regs in the hope that there may be new manus join the current crop.
    Trouble is, as we all know, that current crop is not looking as committed as they said they would be when the regs were drawn up.
    I just can’t see how they can plough on knowing they are potentially going to lose Hyundai as a team, never mind the fact that nobody else seems interested.
    First of all, I'm quite sure the manufacturers have their voice in the meetings when new regulations are thought up.

    Also, this Hyundai thing is fairly new. Earlier this year Adamo spoke positively about the new rules https://dirtfish.com/motorsport/wrc-...has-ever-seen/

    Also interesting quote from him:

    Adamo speculated that the focus on hybrid technology may increase once the world has exited the pandemic, or hybrids may become the “last kick” to keep the large automotive names involved in motorsport at all.
    If someone at the top of Hyundai (the car company, not the rally team) decides that they are not supporting rallying anymore, it doesn't matter if they should be driving Rally1, Rally2 or Rally5 cars.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 31st October 2020 at 11:03.

  14. Likes: Allez Andruet (31st October 2020)
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    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    https://www.facebook.com/17548727014...4011169503102/

    We need these cars, no manufacturer teams and budget cap. Nothing else is needed. I know I'm only dreaming but this is a dream scenario.

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