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Thread: WRC future

  1. #51
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indreq View Post
    These are challenges but not unsolvable.
    1. This depends on location. In Estonia no new multi-appartment buildings get building permits without building also certain number of parking places. As there is usually street lighting nearby, bringing power outlets to parking places is minor additional investment.
    2. Again, depends on location and situation. On one hand, increase of usage of more energy efficient light bulbs and appliances, renovation of houses to be more efficient etc helps to keep increase of power demand under control. Also, power lines are upgraded and renovated over time, they dont stay same.
    3. Thats true but this can be partly solved by using short-term storage based on capacitor/battery combination, which slowly charges itself when not in used and rapidly discharges when in use.
    4. In near future big part of this kind of balancing will be done by demand-response VPP's - virtual power plants. These pilots are successfully running in several countries and more resourses are plugged into these every day. To certain extent even plugged-in EVs can participate in such systems.
    5. Trust the market. When there is demand, supply will follow shortly. At least in Estonia in addition to already existing state-owned network several private owned charging projects are already in operation or in construction. Also in several countries "charger-uber"-like solutions are live - everybody can own charger and connect them into bigger network, so small investors can enter into this market.
    You don't have a clue about it don't you?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

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  3. #52
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    @Mirek

    When you write simple arguments like "totally unprepared" you get simple answers. I have written long posts explaining how none of these issues is a game stopper before so I don't see the need to repeat them in a bit off-topic thread.

    What I find extremely funny is when you are arguing with them from the position of a country with close to no EVs when I sit in a country with the highest number of EVs per capita in the world and explosive EV growth the last years. Just perhaps there is a chance that here it's actually possible to see how big the issues are or not?

    No you don't need centrally planned economy to solve them. When the number of EVs starts to increase "the market" however abstract it may sound solves them. Ex. when you have many EVs on the road and many people need charging, charging stations start to be build commercially or become a "necessity" that customers ask for at hotels, parking places of enterprises and petrol stations! Sure in the end somebody has to pay, that does not make them unsolvable. And yes for 60-30% of people (depending on country) that have own parking place with electricity there is really nothing else they need for just about all daily driving.

    The only major thing that really limits EVs is price.

    As to the speed of the change, in 2018 there were some 15 mil cars sold in Europe, the total number of registered was some 290 mil. So even if all new sold cars were EVs (which won't happen for quite a few years if ever), it would by simple calculation take some 10 years to get to 50% and that's not realistic at all. With a slower rate of change there is also a long time to solve issues as they come.

  4. #53
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    So Norway, i assume? According to Wiki, 56 EVs per 1000 people and 10.7% of all passenger cars. That is still quite a big number less, than 100% EV.

  5. #54
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    I wrote that in post #43. With 50% of all new cars sold being electric for last 3 months the total amount is still only 10% .. and the infrastructure issues mentioned are developing and getting mitigated at the same rate.

    A change to high % of total cars is literally impossible as written at the end of the post right above you.

  6. #55
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    Well ok, an exception to a rule then.
    For sure the big players in the industry are not gone let it go so lightly ( big oil and gas producers, Russia and Arab countries in general). Then there are cultures, were mpg is not an issue at all, the more, the merrier. They carry quite voice...and a wallet.
    Then we have the grid, in some cases could have parts of it old many decades already...even if at the other end sits a 2019 0-consumption smarthome, and then there are people living in old houses, with who knows how old grid. 100% EV neighbourhood would need more power than some industrial region.
    An then there`s money. A normal EV with range and a capacity of a Golf or family estate costs...a lot. To go somwhere, you have to charge it, probably causing you inconviniences every day (not to all ofc), but who rely on cars...

    ...and most definitely there is a crisis on its way ooner or later, meaning...importer places to use that money for.
    Last edited by Tarmop; 18th November 2019 at 17:59.

  7. #56
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    @Mirek

    When you write simple arguments like "totally unprepared" you get simple answers. I have written long posts explaining how none of these issues is a game stopper before so I don't see the need to repeat them in a bit off-topic thread.

    What I find extremely funny is when you are arguing with them from the position of a country with close to no EVs when I sit in a country with the highest number of EVs per capita in the world and explosive EV growth the last years. Just perhaps there is a chance that here it's actually possible to see how big the issues are or not?

    No you don't need centrally planned economy to solve them. When the number of EVs starts to increase "the market" however abstract it may sound solves them. Ex. when you have many EVs on the road and many people need charging, charging stations start to be build commercially or become a "necessity" that customers ask for at hotels, parking places of enterprises and petrol stations! Sure in the end somebody has to pay, that does not make them unsolvable. And yes for 60-30% of people (depending on country) that have own parking place with electricity there is really nothing else they need for just about all daily driving.

    The only major thing that really limits EVs is price.

    As to the speed of the change, in 2018 there were some 15 mil cars sold in Europe, the total number of registered was some 290 mil. So even if all new sold cars were EVs (which won't happen for quite a few years if ever), it would by simple calculation take some 10 years to get to 50% and that's not realistic at all. With a slower rate of change there is also a long time to solve issues as they come.
    Well, I know it's moving faster in Norway but Norway is not part of the EU, i.e. when we talked about decision making and very slow processes in EU Norway simply isn't relevant. Norway is also one of the richest countries in the world and all about EVs is massively supported by the state - and not only financially but what is of same if not even higher importance - in legislation and pushing things forward. It's is very different to do that in a rich country with few million people and to do the same with the bureaucratic elephant called EU where everyone has its own targets, many have only debts instead of money, many agree or disagree with others just out of principle and on top of that sits an armada of bureaucrats living in a bulb disconnected from the outer world. Add to that much more complicated power grid due to many different systems interconnected with others. Much higher population density than in Norway and much bigger cities also make it a completely different challenge. With all respect you don't have any true big city.
    Last edited by Mirek; 18th November 2019 at 18:40.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by cali View Post
    You don't have a clue about it don't you?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
    Anything particular you dont agree with? This type of labeling is not fostering discussion.

  10. #58
    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    Norway rapidcharge map.
    https://elbil.no/lading/ladestasjoner/ so many to choose from.

    It has grown a lot the last couple of years.
    But of course, little of this would have happened if the government took away much of the importtax on EVs, and no roadtax, no tollroad payment and so on.
    I save aprox 6000€ each year in petrolcost driving 120km to work each day in my eUp!

    I have bought a homecharger, and buildt for the future with 400v/32a/22Kw.
    None of my cars can eat that kind of power, but development moves fast now that the bigshots in the carindustry have started to push money into the EV R&D.

    But Norway aside, WRC will not go EV in a few years, WRX will go first.
    Hybrid on the other hand will come, in some shape or form.

  11. #59
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    Guys, dont get stuck into technical or geographical details. Its not important if in this or that country 10% or 20% of cars will be EVs in 5 years and wether or not there are unsolvable problems in some country. My point was that globally ( not just in EU) MARKETING will be even more focused on EVs in just few years and this is what influences carmakers decisions. Right now also only relatively small % of cars are hybrids or EVs but still proportionally big part of ads is about these. Marketing is about top of the line models because they define image of brand.

  12. #60
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    But for how long...warming old houses with cheap EPS was also propagated and supported. Now its quite the opposite....

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