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Thread: WRC future

  1. #781
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    They will not stay if WRC cars will not be a lot faster than R5. That is completely wrong thinking. The top class must be very clearly the top class otherwise there will be no interest in it both from the spectators and the teams. Nobody will follow WRC if the cars won't crush the supporting categories any day. And the marketing value will be zero.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    Good discussions!

    what is the realistic season we will see the new Rally1?
    Will FIA be able to get the final rules out in time to see them in 22, or will it be 2023?

  4. #783
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    Dirtfish and this also says Rally2 hybrid from 2023.

    https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2...nology-by-2023

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    They will not stay if WRC cars will not be a lot faster than R5. That is completely wrong thinking. The top class must be very clearly the top class otherwise there will be no interest in it both from the spectators and the teams. Nobody will follow WRC if the cars won't crush the supporting categories any day. And the marketing value will be zero.
    I think you are right if the manufacturers are spending millions on a Rally-1 car, they will expect the regulations to ensure those are the fastest cars and not have the Peugeot/Citroen F2 car scenario.
    But I believe that if Rally-2/R5 took over as the premier class, the justification for a brand entering the WRC would change completely, as it wouldn’t solely be based on a massive marketing budget to develop and compete with, but also a commercial one as they would only have to develop one car to compete with, and sell to others and offset the costs through customer racing.
    Like I have mentioned before, GT3 is a prime example of this. People have used VW Group as an example of wanting electrification for marketing purposes, yet the VW Group have 4 brands competing in GT3 with de-facto factory teams hidden under the customer racing umbrella.

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Because by adding 200 kg to a WRC car (just an example but the batteries and other extra stuff are heavy) you make it probably hardly any faster than an R5 car while being multiple-times more expensive. Does it make any sense to you?
    The FIA tender was pretty clear: the full hybrid system max weight is 80kg and allows a peak power of 100kW (=134hp).

    Even if it's not certain how that extra hybrid boost can be used on a SS, Rally1H would always be faster than current Rally2 cars once they continue to use the GREngines as their main power source.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    The FIA tender was pretty clear: the full hybrid system max weight is 80kg and allows a peak power of 100kW (=134hp).

    Even if it's not certain how that extra hybrid boost can be used on a SS, Rally1H would always be faster than current Rally2 cars once they continue to use the GREngines as their main power source.
    AFAIK The idea about running only liaisons on electricity was discussed and rejected before the tender was opened.

    Don't get me wrong but I don't believe an 80 kg system can work with batteries able to run the car over liaisons. In my opinion such low weight suggests that the system would rather use supercapacitors or flywheels to give reasonable boost on acceleration over short period of time.
    Last edited by Mirek; 21st October 2020 at 10:46.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  9. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    They will not stay if WRC cars will not be a lot faster than R5. That is completely wrong thinking. The top class must be very clearly the top class otherwise there will be no interest in it both from the spectators and the teams. Nobody will follow WRC if the cars won't crush the supporting categories any day. And the marketing value will be zero.
    As I said already, the best (factory supported) teams will get the best drivers and more testing, so they will always remain at the forefront. As Antill was underlining, the second tier teams/drivers gaining "unexpected" podiums have been scarce in the past - yet there was no free pass for the top teams, one small mistake and you were way down the charts.

    And I don't buy the concept of top teams always remaining at the top. Do you enjoy Ligue 1 (french soccer) where Paris is guaranteed the top spot whatsoever year after year ? Or the Ligua where only 2 team (Real and Barça) compete ? Or F1/WEC if you wish to stay in the motoring world ?

    Rally is all about mixing it up from the top tier professionals, to the begginner amateur. a pklace where you can climb the ladder on merit, not through your wallet. This is no more the case

    More so, what is important for a manufactuer marketing-wise is to win and tell a good story - nobody cares if it is by 15 minutes or 5 seconds. Nobody cares how many sec/km are gained by these uber-expensive machines (provided it is good spectacle, which it would even with R5 driven by the likes of Ogier, Tanak etc ...).

    I am with you from a spectator's standpoint : These Rallye1 machines are incredible to watch. But we die-hard fans, are not the marketing target of the auto makers moguls. It is the average Joe that opens his newspaper or watches a TV commercial - and he could not care less of what is under the body of the car.

    Better being rich and famous (e.g. plethora of spectacular Rally1 machinery) which you are defending, but i would rather not turn poor and lonely (e.g. a handful, if not less, of top class cars crushing the rest of the field and cruising through a rally) - and this is what we are facing if we continue on the path laid down by Matton et al...

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djip View Post
    Rally is all about mixing it up from the top tier professionals, to the begginner amateur. a pklace where you can climb the ladder on merit, not through your wallet. This is no more the case
    What? WRC is one of the few motorsport "leagues" where you can get to the top league with a big wallet but no merit, while even the best skill may not be enough without budget. And it has always been that way.

    I mean, we can't be suggesting there should be a rule that the winner of every country's national championship gets a full season in WRC? Or on the contrary, you should win your own country championship before being allowed to drive in WRC?
    Last edited by AnttiL; 21st October 2020 at 11:26.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    AFAIK The idea about running only liaisons on electricity was discussed and rejected before the tender was opened.

    Don't get me wrong but I don't believe an 80 kg system can work with batteries able to run the car over liaisons. In my opinion such low weight suggests that the system would rather use supercapacitors or flywheels to give reasonable boost on acceleration over short period of time.
    Remember that although it would be idealistic to run all liaisons on electric, marketing-wise it doesn't give anything to the manufacturers because it's rare that cars are spectated on liaisons, except for cities and service parks - which are going to be run on electric motor in the 2022 rules! And for sure the WRC Promoter will require plenty of footage of this to the WRC+ highlights

  12. #790
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    AFAIK The idea about running only liaisons on electricity was discussed and rejected before the tender was opened.
    Don't get me wrong but I don't believe an 80 kg system can work with batteries able to run the car over liaisons. In my opinion such low weight suggests that the system would rather use supercapacitors or flywheels to give reasonable boost on acceleration over short period of time.
    Besides the power boost on the stages, the hybrid system is also required to be used in electric mode inside urban areas on the liaisons.

    You can check page 18 of the PDF or take Matton’s words to wrc.com: https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2...-a-generation/
    Rally addict since 1982

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