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Thread: WRC future

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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    So how do they make it ‘better and cheaper’ then?
    First thing you can do for the works teams to make things cheaper and much easier is to get rid of stock bodyshell. Make it like Dakar. With the hybrids it makes even more sense to design a prototype spaceframe which suits perfectly without a need to pay gazillion hours of experts trying to modify a thing designed for something completely different and by people who can change the thing anytime for their own purpose and thus further comlicate your work.

    IMHO it's not a good idea to promote the Rally2/R5 to be the top tier because it has served exceptionally well to the privateers and I'am afraid that once works teams start to compete with these cars in the WRC they would only become more complex, more expensive and harder to maintain. Plus of course they lack the wow effect which is needed at the top level.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  2. Likes: AnttiL (29th October 2020),steve.mandzij (29th October 2020),T16 (29th October 2020)
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    So how do they make it ‘better and cheaper’ then?
    go back in the discussion, there's plenty of ideas.
    Fia is talking with manus to share some common ground, personally I think they're eyeing at some good point (common cage, standard hybrid, scalable bodyshell)

  4. Likes: AnttiL (29th October 2020)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    First thing you can do for the works teams to make things cheaper and much easier is to get rid of stock bodyshell. Make it like Dakar. With the hybrids it makes even more sense to design a prototype spaceframe which suits perfectly without a need to pay gazillion hours of experts trying to modify a thing designed for something completely different and by people who can change the thing anytime for their own purpose and thus further comlicate your work.

    IMHO it's not a good idea to promote the Rally2/R5 to be the top tier because it has served exceptionally well to the privateers and I'am afraid that once works teams start to compete with these cars in the WRC they would only become more complex, more expensive and harder to maintain. Plus of course they lack the wow effect which is needed at the top level.
    Interesting point on the body shell. I wonder what the cost saving might be as a %age of the overall running cost for a team versus current?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    go back in the discussion, there's plenty of ideas.
    Fia is talking with manus to share some common ground, personally I think they're eyeing at some good point (common cage, standard hybrid, scalable bodyshell)

    I have followed it closely. Apart from Mirek's comment on the body shell above (and potentially using the rally2 formula) I genuinely can't remember seeing much about making it cheaper. I don't understand what you mean by better. Is it the discussion that's around the cars moving around a little more if the suspension changes?
    Genuinely interested in what might make it both better and cheaper, but I got the impression from this thread that it was going to become more expensive (Hybrid unit) and potentially not as good to watch (slower) if the Rally2 format was adopted?

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    We can talk down Rally2s and sing the virtues of hybrid cars with Frankenstein prototype bodyshells all we like, but has there actually been any talk of new manufacturers joining under the proposed new rules? That’s the key thing surely.

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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    We can talk down Rally2s and sing the virtues of hybrid cars with Frankenstein prototype bodyshells all we like, but has there actually been any talk of new manufacturers joining under the proposed new rules? That’s the key thing surely.
    One advantage of spaceframe prototypes is that those don't need manufacturers for anything. You can make such class free to enter for whatever team no matter what relationship it has with any stock manufacturer. Again same thing what we have in Dakar or many circuit series.

    I am well avare that it's something going directly against rallying herritage but at some point it's necessary to think about certain transformation to keep the sport attractive in the future.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  10. Likes: AnttiL (30th October 2020)
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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    That's not the point. Point is make a better (and cheaper) top tier category. moving the second tier to be first as it is doesn't seem enough. nor pumping it to better performance, as would be same as what's is already there.
    The problem is that, apparently, only 2 manus are now interested on a whole new top tier category and having 2 manus is simply too short for any credible top motorsport series, as the WRC itself experienced on the late 00's.

    Besides, there's urgency to bring the Hybrid label to Rally and the announced Rally2 mild hybrids seems to be a easy and cheap way to do it (for sure it'll take less time and money to adapt a eTurbo to current R5's than turn WRC cars into plug-in hybrids).

    Btw, with a specific Rally2+ class as the main WRC category, manus would have the chance to improve R5's speed and reliabilty without hurting the prices and specs of the Rally2 cars used in national series.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 30th October 2020 at 00:11.
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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Btw, with a specific Rally2+ class as the main WRC category, manus would have the chance to improve R5's speed and reliabilty without hurting the prices and specs of the Rally2 cars used in national series.
    Don't tell me that you actually believe in this.
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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Don't tell me that you actually believe in this.
    Why not?

    There's room to keep Rally2 in national or regional series and have an upgraded Rally2+ (or Super Rally2) category just for the WRC.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    I have followed it closely. Apart from Mirek's comment on the body shell above (and potentially using the rally2 formula) I genuinely can't remember seeing much about making it cheaper. I don't understand what you mean by better. Is it the discussion that's around the cars moving around a little more if the suspension changes?
    Genuinely interested in what might make it both better and cheaper, but I got the impression from this thread that it was going to become more expensive (Hybrid unit) and potentially not as good to watch (slower) if the Rally2 format was adopted?
    I think we must be ready to give away some aspects of the sport we have now with the current cars in order to save the series. There's only bad choices, and we must choose the least bad.

    Where do you get the impression that Rally1 cars will be slower than Rally2 cars?

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