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Thread: WRC future

  1. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Wasnt it the spaceframe chassis that made the super-specialised, mid-engined, Gr.B cars possible ? Plus create their inherent danger with lighweight panels stuck on ?
    Group b was dangerous because they were allowed to put an aluminium fuel tank under the drivers seat and next to a glowing hot turbo.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    And there is where the cat is barried, some things manufacturers should not be a part of deciding.
    At some big crossroads FIA need to cut though the noice and decide, to make series bigger in numbers, and by that more exiting for us, who indirectly pay the bills.
    It is only a few in the crowd that will notice if in 2021 R5 became top-dog.
    In the end rallying is marketing for the car manufacturers. They pay the big bills. It's only fair that the get to be in the deciding process.

    Like you said, for most in the crowd it doesn't matter what is the top class. It matters more for the manufacturers.

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    Problem is the manus already in the series (and doing well) usualy want as few changes as possible, both to keep their advantage and to avoid extra costs. This in turn makes it harder for new ones to join.

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Another stakeholder in the equation is WRC Promoter. I know that they've been pushing for shorter stages and ways to make the sport more directly followable (like the fake podium at the end of the power stage although most of the cars haven't yet even run through the last stage and the end scrutineerings are yet to be done).

    Now, imagine the situation that we have 50 top class cars on the start line of the first forest stage, anyone of which could score the stage win. With 2-3 minute start intervals it would take roughly two hours until all the top cars are through and we can declare the stage winner.

    Right now with 10 top cars, we can do it in 30 minutes. In most cases we have all the top cars through the stage until the next stage begins and you don't have to follow two stages at the same time (except for lower classes).

    And of course, we could only see the first 15 cars on television because of physical and economical limitations.

    I believe the WRC Promoter is happier with 10 top cars rather than 50 top cars. Or then they will have to start creating artificial leagues or similar cars like WRC2/3 this year.

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    Senior Member Eli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis44 View Post
    With Audi leaving FE and investing heavily again in motorsport with combustion engines (albeit in a slightly different way in Dakar) could we see another VAG brand joining the party in rallying?!
    Funny you mentioned it this morning when this: .https://dirtfish.com/rallycross/vw-t...es-motorsport/ happened just an hour ago...
    If in doubt, flat out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eli View Post
    Funny you mentioned it this morning when this: .https://dirtfish.com/rallycross/vw-t...es-motorsport/ happened just an hour ago...
    So VW is definitely out of the picture then. What about Cupra or Skoda?! That could be a possibility surely.

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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    And there is where the cat is barried, some things manufacturers should not be a part of deciding.
    At some big crossroads FIA need to cut though the noice and decide, to make series bigger in numbers, and by that more exiting for us, who indirectly pay the bills.
    That makes no sense whatsoever. How can you attract the manufacturers when you decide to go against their will? How would it help to go against the general trends in the automotive branch? How would that help anything and anyone?
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis44 View Post
    So VW is definitely out of the picture then. What about Cupra or Skoda?! That could be a possibility surely.
    It'd make a lot of sense, if it weren't for Cupra not having the Ibiza in its range. Otherwise it'd be a no brainer. Cupra as a brand doesn't really seem to be well executed though, not having the Ibiza as an entry model doesn't seem (to me) to help. I don't see many Cupra's here in the GB, whereas SEAT Sport models of old are still a common sight and normal SEATs still seem to be selling well. Though I appreciate Cupra's are supposed to be more expensive/exclusive. How well are Cupra doing on mainland Europe?

  12. #1039
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Another stakeholder in the equation is WRC Promoter. I know that they've been pushing for shorter stages and ways to make the sport more directly followable (like the fake podium at the end of the power stage although most of the cars haven't yet even run through the last stage and the end scrutineerings are yet to be done).

    Now, imagine the situation that we have 50 top class cars on the start line of the first forest stage, anyone of which could score the stage win. With 2-3 minute start intervals it would take roughly two hours until all the top cars are through and we can declare the stage winner.

    Right now with 10 top cars, we can do it in 30 minutes. In most cases we have all the top cars through the stage until the next stage begins and you don't have to follow two stages at the same time (except for lower classes).

    And of course, we could only see the first 15 cars on television because of physical and economical limitations.

    I believe the WRC Promoter is happier with 10 top cars rather than 50 top cars. Or then they will have to start creating artificial leagues or similar cars like WRC2/3 this year.
    That sounds bizarre. Every motorsport series is eager to get as many manus as possible but you’re somehow suggesting it shouldn’t be WRC case because it’s hard to broadcast more than 15 cars…

    For a start, even on a R5+ scenario it’d be hard getting more than 5/6 manus, meaning we would never be close to the absurd figure of 50 top cars, even considering that a few top privateers would be able to get a R5+ car and fight for the wins (in the case R5+ wouldn’t be limited to manus teams).

    Secondly, besides manus entry fees allowing to develop the WRC, the interest on having as manus as possible comes from manus ability to promote any motorsport series through their powerful marketing machines, directly or indirectly once they’re also one of the strongest media advertising costumers.

    Finally, if the FIA and the WRC promoter feels that having 3 manus is enough and there’s little purpose on looking for more, they would be risking the series future (unfortunately, it seems to be the case) as it’s impossible to know when a manu decide to pull out. If having just 2 manus in the 00’s was already quite agonizing, nowadays that would probably mean the WRC end as a top motorsport series.
    Rally addict since 1982

  13. #1040
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    That sounds bizarre. Every motorsport series is eager to get as many manus as possible but you’re somehow suggesting it shouldn’t be WRC case because it’s hard to broadcast more than 15 cars…
    Not bizzare at all. How can you avoid a scenario where a private car wins the stage overall while starting an hour after the end of broadcast? That would definitely happen because that happens even now but very rarely. The closer the top cars are to the privateer ones the more often this will happen. The closer in performance the cars are the more often they will appear in top ten (also take into account lesser reliability of R5 in the rough events) and especially first day will be very messy and difficult to follow when results broadcasted on TV will be different than real results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    For a start, even on a R5+ scenario it’d be hard getting more than 5/6 manus, meaning we would never be close to the absurd figure of 50 top cars, even considering that a few top privateers would be able to get a R5+ car and fight for the wins (in the case R5+ wouldn’t be limited to manus teams).
    Some imaginary R5+ won't be much faster than the real R5 (that is simply impossible) which means that even normal R5 would mix much more in the results than now, i.e. a chaos in results is very real thing to be expected. Those private cars will also mix in the start lists of the second and third day and take away the TV time from the manufacturers. For sure we can say they won't like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Secondly, besides manus entry fees allowing to develop the WRC, the interest on having as manus as possible comes from manus ability to promote any motorsport series through their powerful marketing machines, directly or indirectly once they’re also one of the strongest media advertising costumers.
    And why do you think they shall use for their marketing something they don't want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Finally, if the FIA and the WRC promoter feels that having 3 manus is enough and there’s little purpose on looking for more, they would be risking the series future (unfortunately, it seems to be the case) as it’s impossible to know when a manu decide to pull out. If having just 2 manus in the 00’s was already quite agonizing, nowadays that would probably mean the WRC end as a top motorsport series.
    How did you come to a conclusion that the proposed rules are not a way to seek for new entries? In every meaningful aspect they are designed for that far better than your R5+ which manufacturers neither want nor need.
    Last edited by Mirek; 1st December 2020 at 22:59.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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