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  1. #41
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I am not sure what you are trying to say here. but l surmise from it that you think this new level of aggressive defending is fine. You have to notice that Hamilton did not complain at all. Because what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    As far as cutting the chicane goes, he was not punished at all by the run off area for his mistake, such that he was able to maintain his lead from a battle which he was roughly 0.5 sec ahead. That said, he was able to rejoin the race safely. But run off areas are suppose to punish drivers who make mistake and enter those sort of areas for safety reasons.

    The run off area in question was not effective, if a driver can drive at race speed through them and not lose significant amount of time driving through them. Errors are rewarded in this scenario.
    TBH he was supposed to go around those styrofoam chicanes, which he didn't.
    At the end of the day we got some thrills and spills. A ferrari win and Hamilton maintaining his WDc championship lead.
    I do like LeClerc but of the 3 incidents the weaving defending was the one i was a bit annoyed with...which incidentally is the hardest to adjudicate from the stewards.
    I did find them to be a bit lenient toward that car during the race. Almost as if fearful of handing an actual penalty.
    But LeClerc drove well. made the hards work and maximised the superior straight line speed to his advantage throughout the whole race.
    Overall. I was entertained and now look forward to singapore.
    you can't argue with results

  2. #42
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    Lots to talk about this weekend; weird to think that earlier in the season all the commentary was about how boring F1 had become these days...

    The Q3 fiasco was pretty entertaining. Personally I'm really not all that worried about it; these things tend to self-correct pretty quickly, but this is going to be right up there with "Schumi parking at Rascasse" in the list of "stupid things that happened in qualifying".

    Great drive from Leclerc to resist pressure from both Hamilton and Bottas, and although he certainly had his elbows out in a few places I thought that was pretty reasonable hard racing. The incident at della Roggia was a bit over the line, but the use of the black and white flag seemed appropriate to me. Good that the stewards have that option - it would have been really unfortunate if they had done something like issue a 5 second penalty or told him to give a place up for that, but equally it shouldn't be left un-noted.

    And OMG Vettel. Awful performances in both qualifying and the race, and I'm seriously starting to doubt whether we'll see him next season. If he's going to keep going, he needs to get it together in a hurry. That incident with Stroll was potentially extremely dangerous, and could easily have resulted in a high speed t-bone accident. Particularly given the tragic events of last weekend, the stewards had no option to smack that down hard. I wonder if we'll see a new "rules clarification" or something stating that when a driver is re-entering the track and is unsighted to approaching traffic, they must wait for radio instructions before rejoining. Or something like that.

    Great result from Renault (finally). Not sure what they were able to find here, but they had great pace all weekend. Be interesting to see if this is a one-off or whether they can continue to improve. Particularly with a terrible weekend from McLaren, they might sense an opening.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I suppose, you mean the track was wide enough for only one car to go through it. Mind you, l am not criticizing Leclerc, he has been shown by Verstapenn at the Austrian GP, that this is the way to defend and the stewards condoned it, and Leclerc has used it to good effect in this race. Sainz has shown Albon and Leclerc has shown Hamilton, the knowledge spreads. Now they would go ahead and show other drivers the new way of defending. I am only interested in how this is going to turn out in the end.
    Well , what I mean is that you really need to convince the guy inside , by being farther along or even ahead , to have him leave room , because by that point he's pretty committed to the line he's taking .
    You're trying to force him to brake earlier than you , because he must leave room if you're even with him .

    It has to be that way , as they really can't see right beside them , as the bolsters block the view , especially when they are "submarined" into the cockpit under braking .
    This was clearly shown with both Vettel and Stroll in the race (not the submarine part , the view, in case you hadn't figured that out already).

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Well , what I mean is that you really need to convince the guy inside , by being farther along or even ahead , to have him leave room , because by that point he's pretty committed to the line he's taking .
    You're trying to force him to brake earlier than you , because he must leave room if you're even with him .

    It has to be that way , as they really can't see right beside them , as the bolsters block the view , especially when they are "submarined" into the cockpit under braking .
    This was clearly shown with both Vettel and Stroll in the race (not the submarine part , the view, in case you hadn't figured that out already).
    That's why there are those flimsy glass things called mirrors on either side of the car. Besides, Hamilton was right beside him, he could see the nose of the car without straining. It was hard racing which Verstapenn has introduced into F1.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I suppose, you mean the track was wide enough for only one car to go through it. Mind you, l am not criticizing Leclerc, he has been shown by Verstapenn at the Austrian GP, that this is the way to defend and the stewards condoned it, and Leclerc has used it to good effect in this race. Sainz has shown Albon and Leclerc has shown Hamilton, the knowledge spreads. Now they would go ahead and show other drivers the new way of defending. I am only interested in how this is going to turn out in the end.
    It will either turn out into having much more incidents and crashes, or into having far less overtakes. I suspect mostly the latter, since even small contact can destroy your entire race.

    If the defending driver is allowed to weave, change direction under braking and push you off the track as long as he's on the inside, overtaking becomes nearly impossible except with drs on the straight.

    That's what we are already seeing right now, hamilton backing off for 40 laps because he can't overtake on the straight, and can't overtake somewhere else without risking being pushed off.

    All thanks to the fia who didn't have the balls to punish the dutch kid for his dangerous karting moves.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    That's why there are those flimsy glass things called mirrors on either side of the car. Besides, Hamilton was right beside him, he could see the nose of the car without straining. It was hard racing which Verstapenn has introduced into F1.
    “To be completely honest, obviously I knew he was on the right, he braked a little bit early which I think was probably on purpose because he didn’t want to try around the outside,” .

    So , he knew he was there , but didn't expect him to try it , knowing he was braking early .
    He likely saw him in those mirrors you mentioned , but I would suspect his awareness of his rival beside him was more likely due to him hearing him than seeing him .You really can't see anyone beside you in these cars without being almost even with them .

    Leclerc didn't expect him to try around the outside , and I believe that's because , in order to get it done one needs to be much farther in to actually make it work at all .
    Any move like that requires a hefty amount of intimidation from the guy making it , and that intimidation comes from convincing the guy ahead that you are going to be in the way when he gets there .

    Lewis showing his nose there was perhaps , at best , an attempt to compromise the kid's corner entry , because he was never far enough alongside to actually make the move stick .

  7. #47
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    I think Hamilton's statement after the race was weird as he basically said if he or Vettel squeeze someone out it's OK but if Max or Charles do it then they should be penalized.

    I also think that Hamilton is not happy that these two kids are beating him, although not enough to challenge him for the title, as he is easily going to easily win that.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  8. Likes: Mia 01 (9th September 2019)
  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    TBH he was supposed to go around those styrofoam chicanes, which he didn't.
    At the end of the day we got some thrills and spills. A ferrari win and Hamilton maintaining his WDc championship lead.
    I do like LeClerc but of the 3 incidents the weaving defending was the one i was a bit annoyed with...which incidentally is the hardest to adjudicate from the stewards.
    I did find them to be a bit lenient toward that car during the race. Almost as if fearful of handing an actual penalty.
    But LeClerc drove well. made the hards work and maximised the superior straight line speed to his advantage throughout the whole race.
    Overall. I was entertained and now look forward to singapore.
    It is beginning to appear that the stewards are intimidated by certain elements of the ownership of a number of european circuits. It might be the fans [mob], team owners or venue management. Whatever the case, it was quite clear the stewards seemed terrified to make any other decision than the ones that they made at Austria and recently at Italy [Monza].
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  10. #49
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    Leclerc - Hamilton, I Think it was hard bur fair racing. But, the driver with most fans usually wins the debate.

  11. Likes: Tazio (12th September 2019)
  12. #50
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    May the forza be with you

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