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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia 01 View Post
    Leclerc - Hamilton, I Think it was hard bur fair racing. But, the driver with most fans usually wins the debate.
    A couple of months ago it would have incurred a penalty. The teams encouraged the FIA to change their stance on penalties since then. The thing that really causes this controversy is the confusion for the fans. The FIA, for example, donít point to a past incident and say this that was previously a 5 second penalty is now a black and white flag and on the second occasion a 5 second penalty. Michel Masi explaining to Anthony Davisdon on the Sky Pad why a different decision was made this time around isnít enough and the message doesnít reach all fans. Itís still confusing because the goalposts keep moving. Personally I think these rule changes should not be made mid season. It should be consistent from season start to finish unless required for safety.

    If this is now the way forward I have no issue with what happened with LeClerc and Hamilton once this approach is now applied consistently. Unfortunately, the most likely truth, is that itís application will be inconsistent and, well, even more confusing.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 13th September 2019 at 05:27.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    A couple of months ago it would have incurred a penalty. The teams encouraged the FIA to change their stance on penalties since then. The thing that really causes this controversy is the confusion for the fans. The FIA, for example, don’t point to a past incident and say this that was previously a 5 second penalty is now a black and white flag and on the second occasion a 5 second penalty. Michel Masi explaining to Anthony Davisdon on the Sky Pad why a different decision was made this time around isn’t enough and the message doesn’t reach all fans. It’s still confusing because the goalposts keep moving. Personally I think these rule changes should not be made mid season. It should be consistent from season start to finish unless required for safety.

    If this is now the way forward I have no issue with what happened with LeClerc and Hamilton once this approach is now applied consistently. Unfortunately, the most likely truth, is that it’s application will be inconsistent and, well, even more confusing.
    I think they have not done a thorough analysis of what sort of driving behavior should warrant a black and white flag. The "no contact" criteria is not a fair one, as there is no contact because the offended driver has taken action to avoid a collision, which is why there is no contact. Ask the offended driver, he would say just that. The new approach contradicts quite a few existing rules. Which is why l agree with you that this sort of major change to the rules ought to be introduced at the beginning of a fresh season and not midway though an existing one.

    I think they have a job on their hands achieving consistency. I am not sure if things has changed from old, but did black and white flag not use to be a flag that is waved before a black flag is waved? As they have yet to go to the next stage after the black and white flag has been imposed, are they going to issue the black flag for the repeat offence?
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 13th September 2019 at 07:42.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  3. #53
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    Monza Memories

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Well , what I mean is that you really need to convince the guy inside , by being farther along or even ahead , to have him leave room , because by that point he's pretty committed to the line he's taking .
    You're trying to force him to brake earlier than you , because he must leave room if you're even with him .

    It has to be that way , as they really can't see right beside them , as the bolsters block the view , especially when they are "submarined" into the cockpit under braking .
    This was clearly shown with both Vettel and Stroll in the race (not the submarine part , the view, in case you hadn't figured that out already).
    Four things stood out for me during the weekend...

    1. Q3 debacle was entirely avoidable, the teams chose to dance and the song ended early. Result was the same. Mercedes were the only losers in this, however I doubt Toto and Valteri could ever have the "I want you to tow Lulu to pole" conversation.
    2. LeClerc's pass on the Renault into Parabolica...massive courage on hard tires. Had to get it done there. Got me on my feet.
    3. LeClerc chose his line into the chicane. Lulu chose his. The track ran out at the end of Lulu's line and he continued on in any case. He should have braked and fallen in. It was not evident that LeClerc jinked to push Lulu over, it looked steady and solid from my view. I was hampered by Monza's tiny video screens, but he looked good to me (and several thousand Tifosi) Hamilton did not convince, he should give way...
    4. Ferrari let the wrong driver go at the end of last year.

    PS Quick note to Liberty Media - I want to hear the cars drive off onto the formation lap, not have them drowned out by the techno of DJ Doofus. I like EDM and Dance as much as the next guy but we paid to hear the cars, not the band....
    \"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure.\" --
    Aldous Huxley

  4. Likes: Bagwan (13th September 2019),Duncan (13th September 2019)
  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOG View Post
    Four things stood out for me during the weekend...

    1. Q3 debacle was entirely avoidable, the teams chose to dance and the song ended early. Result was the same. Mercedes were the only losers in this, however I doubt Toto and Valteri could ever have the "I want you to tow Lulu to pole" conversation.
    2. LeClerc's pass on the Renault into Parabolica...massive courage on hard tires. Had to get it done there. Got me on my feet.
    3. LeClerc chose his line into the chicane. Lulu chose his. The track ran out at the end of Lulu's line and he continued on in any case. He should have braked and fallen in. It was not evident that LeClerc jinked to push Lulu over, it looked steady and solid from my view. I was hampered by Monza's tiny video screens, but he looked good to me (and several thousand Tifosi) Hamilton did not convince, he should give way...
    4. Ferrari let the wrong driver go at the end of last year.

    PS Quick note to Liberty Media - I want to hear the cars drive off onto the formation lap, not have them drowned out by the techno of DJ Doofus. I like EDM and Dance as much as the next guy but we paid to hear the cars, not the band....
    I eagerly look forward to the next race. We have amco barriers at Singapore, so the defensive squeeze is going to be sweet there.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  6. Likes: Duncan (13th September 2019)
  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOG View Post
    Four things stood out for me during the weekend...

    1. Q3 debacle was entirely avoidable, the teams chose to dance and the song ended early. Result was the same. Mercedes were the only losers in this, however I doubt Toto and Valteri could ever have the "I want you to tow Lulu to pole" conversation.
    2. LeClerc's pass on the Renault into Parabolica...massive courage on hard tires. Had to get it done there. Got me on my feet.
    3. LeClerc chose his line into the chicane. Lulu chose his. The track ran out at the end of Lulu's line and he continued on in any case. He should have braked and fallen in. It was not evident that LeClerc jinked to push Lulu over, it looked steady and solid from my view. I was hampered by Monza's tiny video screens, but he looked good to me (and several thousand Tifosi) Hamilton did not convince, he should give way...
    4. Ferrari let the wrong driver go at the end of last year.

    PS Quick note to Liberty Media - I want to hear the cars drive off onto the formation lap, not have them drowned out by the techno of DJ Doofus. I like EDM and Dance as much as the next guy but we paid to hear the cars, not the band....
    Nice to see you back , my friend .

    On your #4 , though .
    Kimi has got to be happier without all the red whine . He seems more of a vodka guy .

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Nice to see you back , my friend .

    On your #4 , though .
    Kimi has got to be happier without all the red whine . He seems more of a vodka guy .
    With hindsight it is easy to be critical; but if Kimi was partnered with McLerc at Ferrari, they probably wouldn't have scored any less points than they have with Fettel, maybe even more! One thing I will say about Kimi is he is very malleable, and just gets on with it wherever he serves
    Last edited by Tazio; 13th September 2019 at 22:09.
    May the forza be with you

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazio View Post
    With hindsight it is easy to be critical; but if Kimi was partnered with McLerc at Ferrari, they probably wouldn't have scored any less points than they have with Fettel, maybe even more! One thing I will say about Kimi is he is very malleable, and just gets on with it wherever he serves
    I was talking about Kimi's happiness , not Ferrari's , Taz-man .

  10. #58
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    In theory, Leclerc should've got a penalty for tagging Hamilton off. They were going straight, then into a right hand corner. So there was no need to turn left, especially as Hamilton was already there and not impeding Leclerc.

    It more than just what happened there and then. Had Leclerc not impeded Hamilton, then Hamilton would've had a chance to pass Leclerc into the first Lesmo.

    But I wouldn't trust any of the race director Masi, who's just winging it, or a blowhard like Derek Warwick.

  11. #59
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    Leclerc is the first guy since Hamilton to follow up their first win with a second in the next race.

    The first time this season that (The first since Azerbaijan last year) Bottas put himself in a position of strength ahead of Hamilton after trailing behind him most of the race.

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    Leclerc is the first guy since Hamilton to follow up their first win with a second in the next race.

    The first time this season that (The first since Azerbaijan last year) Bottas put himself in a position of strength ahead of Hamilton after trailing behind him most of the race.
    Bottas is still performing very well but his lack of wins since Baku is what is making it look like he is slipping. His race now is with Verstapenn and Leclerc, all of which has won two races each and are within touching distance of 2nd in the drivers championship.

    The Bottas 2.0 reputation would be intact if he manages to maintain 2nd in the championship at the end of the season. If he can win the driver's title somehow, he would attain a legendary status of the greatest comeback of all time.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

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