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  1. #1291
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Eight WRC cars would be bad now. Just because it’s been worse in the past, doesn’t mean it’s in a good place now.
    Rally is definitely the best motorsport for me, I just would love to see a stacked field and I can’t see anything improving any time soon.
    Why can’t I desire for there to be more entries, to make it a more exciting spectacle?
    It was good (for the most part) in the 90’s / 2000’s so why not again?
    To say that is a battle we will always lose probably goes against the thinking of the majority of fans and certainly the current manufacturers and promoters.
    I’d be very surprised if I was the only one thinking the current status is acceptable.
    Hate to say it, but look at F1... even with Mercedes potentially pulling out and a few other teams always blowing hit and cold, it looks like the majority are going to commit to the next set of regulations and with this comes sustainability and therefore commitment and interest from others joining the series.
    Right now, rallying looks secure for one, maybe two seasons at the most (in terms of manufacturer commitment) and I desperately hope they find a way of changing this and getting it back to a healthy position again.
    Ofcourse everybody fancies (or I'd be surprised if some didn't) about more entries and more manufacturers. That's a no-brainer. My point was, that amongst the different eras of World Rallying, having eight factory-entered cars in every round of the championship is not that bad. As said, we've seen better, we've seen worse.

    Then again, that was always the risk with these current super cars that the number of top level entries would be somewhat limited.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  2. #1292
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    Perhaps they should limit R5 rules, so that they are even more cheaper and more equal than today, and homologate only those R5's which manufacturers are represented also on higher level, in WRC. So that profits from R5 sales pay for WRC campaign and WRC is mandatory (kind of homologation requirement) in order to get to sell R5s?

  3. #1293
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    My point was, that amongst the different eras of World Rallying, having eight factory-entered cars in every round of the championship is not that bad. As said, we've seen better, we've seen worse.
    Exactly. 1996-1997 there were only three teams with two cars each. On earlier seasons some rounds like New Zealand and Sweden were often for drivers points only, resulting in very low-level manufacturer entries

  4. #1294
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    David Evans podcast says we shouldnt rule out Ogier going back to M-Sport if Citroen leave.

    He has a contract for 2020 and if Citroen leave they would have to pay that up. That would mean a cheaper deal for M-Sport to employ him. Plus he knows the team and car, and there's much fewer PR days there than would be at Toyota.

  5. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Exactly. 1996-1997 there were only three teams with two cars each. On earlier seasons some rounds like New Zealand and Sweden were often for drivers points only, resulting in very low-level manufacturer entries
    It's not about manufacturer entries. I'm talking about the whole. Yes there were 3 brands only, but quite far more entries and cars on the field than today, even if they were not there for full season. I counted 15 different teams with 3 works ones (Toyota was there too but only privateers). And at the end there were 35 different drivers on the leaderboard, nowadays it's mixed with lower classes but still don't get so many entries in WRC cars. That's why it's bad.

    It's shame because there is so much proven drivers out there who will never came to the top level because of unlimited costs of these machines. And a lot now who will lose their jobs if Citroen really leaves.

    We must enjoy it as long as we can and not thinking about dark. That's just my opinion and maybe FIA have their own ways of massively reduce costs to boost others to join the field, but right now it doesn't seem that they are doing right thing.

  6. #1296
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    The easiest way to save money is to get rid of most of the current aero parts. Or at least make them from fiberglass instead of carbon fiber.

  7. #1297
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indreq View Post
    Perhaps they should limit R5 rules, so that they are even more cheaper and more equal than today, and homologate only those R5's which manufacturers are represented also on higher level, in WRC. So that profits from R5 sales pay for WRC campaign and WRC is mandatory (kind of homologation requirement) in order to get to sell R5s?
    Nice theory but just a theory.

    Why do you think you can always make things cheaper? By magic wand? R5 rules managed to keep the cost same for some 7 years already. That's huge achievement alone. R5 rules work. Just don't fix what is not broken, please.



    Guys, You really miss the bigger picture. The problem really isn't in few carbon wings. That's not why manufacturers leave. Citroën leaves because they don't win and because they don't gain much from the brand's involvement. In fact quite the opposite. If Ogier leaves it damages the brand because it shows them as incompetent. That really isn't about few thousand Euros for aero, active center diff or whatever. The carmakers have enough money to invest in the sport if they see it as worth the investment - but they have to do it right.

    The last thing is IMHO what was wrong on Citroën side. It's actually the same thing like our never ending discussions about cheaper but slower cars (R4 thread for example). If you invest into something which is not good enough you throw the money out of the window. And that is what was wrong with Citroën. They invested a lot of money but not enough to be fully committed - ultimately they failed just like they had to, simply because the others have shown higher level of commitment. Look at VW or Toyota, or Škoda in WRC2. It's the same. If you decide to join you have to commit fully and be prepared to raise your game if others do that. Otherwise you are bound to fail and in that case all your investment goes in vain.
    Last edited by Mirek; 15th November 2019 at 14:52.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  8. Likes: AndyRAC (15th November 2019),BigWorm (15th November 2019),cali (15th November 2019),dimviii (15th November 2019),EstWRC (15th November 2019),Fast Eddie WRC (15th November 2019),pantealex (16th November 2019),TWRC (15th November 2019)
  9. #1298
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Guys, You really miss the bigger picture. The problem really isn't in few carbon wings. That's not why manufacturers leave. Citroën leaves because they don't win and because they don't gain much from the brand's involvement. In fact quite the opposite. If Ogier leaves it damages the brand because it shows them as incompetent. That really isn't about few thousand Euros for aero, active center diff or whatever. The carmakers have enough money to invest in the sport if they see it as worth the investment - but they have to do it right.
    Actually the bigger picture is that the WRC fights against FE, WEC and even the WRX to get new manus (F1 is a case apart). Besides each series marketing value, their overall running budgets are also considered in manus options to enter a competition and if costs start to rise on a wild spiral manus will tend moving to other series. That was WEC case a few years ago and the WRC in the mid 00’s; it doesn’t take much to see we’re getting closer to desertion level again.
    Rally addict since 1982

  10. #1299
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    No. The cost is relative. You can never compare cost alone. You can compare it only if you know what you get for your money and that is what we don't know - but the manufacturers do and they can decide what is worth it.

    This situation when manufacturers are leaving or getting involved don't tell you anything about the absolute cost. It tells you about the ratio between the cost and the value. As I wrote in the other thread the good product is never too expensive - in a simpler words if you offer a lot of value you can ask a lot of money for that and the customer will pay. That's why you can never speak only about cost without discussing the value.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  11. #1300
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    We have a new thread on the future of WRC: https://www.motorsportforums.com/sho...422-WRC-future
    #M-SPORTER

  12. Likes: EstWRC (15th November 2019)

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