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  1. #301
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Got Mail View Post
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1183821742399246344
    This could be very interesting....
    Colin Clark & Andrea Adamo in the kitchen... not really that interesting except on the future of WRC.

  2. #302
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    this doesnt ''sell'' something.Just uses money from the biggest manufacturer to promote his brand at wrc
    Last time Tommi had a company that sell something,bunkrupted.
    It’s pretty clear: TMR sells goods (prepared rally cars and parts) and services (developing, testing and running the cars) to his client, Toyota; besides no matter how big Toyota is, for sure their WRC budget isn’t randomly planned.

    Btw, TMR troubles in 2010 can be explained by a slowing demand for N4 cars and a huge investement on new facilities, during a global finantial crisis; besides he was working for private costumeurs, not to a big corp like Toyota.


    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    there is no harm for some more hundreds thousand euros.
    How stupid could someone be to risk loosing a multimillion WRC client for cheating him on a secondary program? That alleged ‘under the table’ deal simply doesn’t make sense.
    Rally addict since 1982

  3. Likes: pantealex (15th October 2019)
  4. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Both Meeke and Latvala have taken points off Tanak in PS. A lot of times they took points both off him and his rivals but a few times it was from Tanak and not from one of Ogier/Neuville.

    At Hyundai Mikkelsen was directly instructed not to push on PS a few times (Sweden, Argentina, Turkey, GB), but also took points off Neuville and Ogier in Sardinia pushing for more manu points by passing Evans.
    People keep complaining, especially in Estonia, how Meeke and Latavala keep stealing PS points from Tänak. It did not sound quite right to me so I took a look at the results this year. Both of them have overall "stolen" exactly 0 points from Tänak in PS. Both "stole" 1 point (Argentina and Mexico) and also "gave" him one point in Germany. Btw, both Latvala in Argentina and Meeke in Mexico lost to Ogier only by 0,1 seconds so they were both very close to actually giving Tänak a point overall.

    Here is the overall rankings of "Best powerstage supporting teammate so far" I put together:

    1. Sordo - Helped Neuville increase gap to Tänak by 2 points.
    2. Lappi - Helped Ogier increase gap to Tänak and Neuville by 1 point.
    3. Mikkelsen- Helped Neuville increase gap to Ogier by 1 points.
    4. Latvala - Did not increase nor decrease gap between Tänak and rivals
    4. Meeke - Did not increase nor decrease gap between Tänak and rivals

    From here you could argue that Latvala and Meeke are the worst PS teammates. Maybe so, but by a small margin. Overall they have not stolen points from Tänak and you cannot say others are significantly better than them. The gaps are too small to claim who would be the best choice for the future. The bosses will have to use other figures

  5. Likes: er88 (15th October 2019),Jewy46 (16th October 2019),Morte66 (15th October 2019),pantealex (15th October 2019)
  6. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    It’s pretty clear: TMR sells goods (prepared rally cars and parts) and services (developing, testing and running the cars) to his client, Toyota; besides no matter how big Toyota is, for sure their WRC budget isn’t randomly planned..
    that couldnt happened without toyota money.
    Anyway probbly you didnt understand my post.
    What i was trying to say is that,of course you will have a big profit running a very healthy budget.
    Its impossible to run this business ,with financial losses.
    So that he makes these profits isnt a surprise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Btw, TMR troubles in 2010 can be explained by a slowing demand for N4 cars and a huge investement on new facilities, during a global finantial crisis; besides he was working for private costumeurs, not to a big corp like Toyota.
    at these days were plenty of other teams worldwide that were running N4 cars and they were profitable.
    So the problem wasnt the global financial crisis,but something else.




    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    How stupid could someone be to risk loosing a multimillion WRC client for cheating him on a secondary program? That alleged ‘under the table’ deal simply doesn’t make sense.
    Greediness.

  7. Likes: cali (15th October 2019)
  8. #305
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    What i was trying to say is that,of course you will have a big profit running a very healthy budget.
    Its impossible to run this business ,with financial losses.
    Oh yes it is, very possible. Making a profit and having a healthy budget are two totally different things.

    And who cares if some previous business of Mäkinen's hasn't been that successful? That just makes the story even more magnificent. Success after failure, what could be better?

    It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  9. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    Oh yes it is, very possible. Making a profit and having a healthy budget are two totally different things.
    yes they are different,but Tommi wouldnt put his money to run Toyota programm if it wasnt profitable,nor he would be satisfied to run a multiyear wrc programm for 200.000 euros.
    So these profits are logic,and couldnt be different in ANY way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    And who cares if some previous business of Mäkinen's hasn't been that successful? That just makes the story even more magnificent. Success after failure, what could be better?

    It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
    were you are here,would be almost everybody who run this programm with this budget.

    We have to give credits to Tommi for other things,not for his financial capabilities.

  10. #307
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    yes they are different,but Tommi wouldnt put his money to run Toyota programm if it wasnt profitable,nor he would be satisfied to run a multiyear wrc programm for 200.000 euros.
    So these profits are logic,and couldnt be different in ANY way.



    were you are here,would be almost everybody who run this programm with this budget.

    We have to give credits to Tommi for other things,not for his financial capabilities.
    Sorry but no, I don't buy it. Not claiming Tommi would be the second coming of Warren Buffett but it's complete nonsense that "everybody could run it" with the budget Toyota has given him and his company. How much of it is because of Tommi himself? Hard to say, but at the end of the day that's quite irrelevant. It's Tommi who has built the team and hired the people around himself making all this possible, no-one else.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  11. #308
    Objective observer stefanvv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EstWRC View Post
    with this i just remembered Wales GB power stage, Lappi was holding his breath when he saw that Ogier was just tiny bit faster than him on splits, and what a relief he had after Ogier had finished and Lappi saw that Ogier was faster him
    Interesting case isn't it? Lappi certainly wanted to take away points from Ogier's rivals, but not Ogier himself. The muddy roads didn't make that easy task.
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI

  12. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kradovech View Post
    People keep complaining, especially in Estonia, how Meeke and Latavala keep stealing PS points from Tänak. It did not sound quite right to me so I took a look at the results this year. Both of them have overall "stolen" exactly 0 points from Tänak in PS. Both "stole" 1 point (Argentina and Mexico) and also "gave" him one point in Germany. Btw, both Latvala in Argentina and Meeke in Mexico lost to Ogier only by 0,1 seconds so they were both very close to actually giving Tänak a point overall.
    ...
    From here you could argue that Latvala and Meeke are the worst PS teammates. Maybe so, but by a small margin. Overall they have not stolen points from Tänak and you cannot say others are significantly better than them. The gaps are too small to claim who would be the best choice for the future. The bosses will have to use other figures
    Sorry but this is not correct, they have each stolen 1 point off Tanak when they didn't need to.

    In Germany they took 2 points off Ogier, but not Neuville. That didn't "give" Tanak anything. Even if they drove at snail pace it wouldn't give him anything cause he had only 3 brakes from the stage before. Which the team knew before PS started, so there was no choice there.

    When you "steal" 2 points and then if you "give" 2 back (which is not correct as just explained), you still stole two. This way result is 0, while it could have been +2 for Tanak.

    Sure it's not a massive difference. But it's completely unnecessary when the team's goal should be to have one driver to win the WDC and by Mexico it imo was quite clear it will be Tanak. Surely by Argentina.

    If you would be really hardcore for manu title push you'd actually forbid your drivers to push at all on PS. Cause any extra points move drivers up in drivers standings which results in worse starting position on gravel, but nobody has taken it so far yet.

    Imo for bosses (and for Tanak) it's not so much about the 1-2 points, but about knowing what your job is. This was great with Meeke in GB on Saturday, when he couldn't keep up with the top3 he didn't try harder and crash but kept 4 place for very important points. But this kind approach should have started 5-6 rallies earlier. I'd guess Tanak would certainly want it from the start of the season. Cause with 2 other cars on decent points he could afford to push a bit harder with some risk of crashing when needed.
    Last edited by mknight; 15th October 2019 at 21:22.

  13. Likes: cali (16th October 2019)
  14. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    Sorry but no, I don't buy it. Not claiming Tommi would be the second coming of Warren Buffett but it's complete nonsense that "everybody could run it" with the budget Toyota has given him and his company. How much of it is because of Tommi himself? Hard to say, but at the end of the day that's quite irrelevant. It's Tommi who has built the team and hired the people around himself making all this possible, no-one else.
    what do you mean,that Malcolm or Richards would have failed financialy with this budget?
    Probably you dont read properly my posts.
    So i will write it again.
    we have to give credits to Tommi for other things(his choices at every level generally) but NOT for his financial results.
    Hope that now is clear that i write about the FINANCIAL RESULTS.

  15. Likes: EstWRC (15th October 2019)

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