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  1. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Like someone said, Katsuta is the reason they won't run a fourth car - not that any team would have that kind of resources in the pocket. So what if Kalle makes mistakes in his first year, will he still be worse than Lappi this year?
    The overall point result that Lappi "achieved" is hard to beat, especially since there will be only 6 manu point scoring cars, so just finishing brings 8 manu points.

    Thing is that Ogier + Evans + Rovanpera team does not look like they stand a chance in manu champs vs Tanak, Neuville, Sordo/Loeb+Breen/Mikkelsen or even Latvala (for Sweden/Finland).

    Toyoda's goal for both titles next year seemed dead serious, in my head that doesn't connect with Rovanpera in 3rd car.

  2. #1432
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Thing is that Ogier + Evans + Rovanpera team does not look like they stand a chance in manu champs vs Tanak, Neuville, Sordo/Loeb+Breen/Mikkelsen or even Latvala (for Sweden/Finland).
    I dare to disagree.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  3. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    I dare to disagree.
    Very simplified maths:

    Manu points from Tanak and Neuville this year: 219+179= 398 (18 more than Hyundai won the championship using 3 cars with)
    Manu points from Ogier and Evans: 190+94= 284

    Note that this calculation actually benefits both Ogier and Evans a lot cause with 2 car teams on most rallies they never lost points to their teammates. Sure it is likely Ogier will get slightly better results in Toyota and maybe Evans will too and Evans missed 3 rallies (with his average points it means 30 points), but 110 points is a huge difference.

    Now moving on to "3rd" drivers you'd have Sordo/Loeb and one more for SWE/FIN with roadposition advantage on just about every rally vs Rovanpera. Doesn't look very promising.

    Sure things might work out, but before the season I'd guess the team would want to maximize their chances and this is not a "learning year" like 2017. This is the year where they have to deliver, in the words of Toyoda himself.
    Last edited by mknight; 20th November 2019 at 21:42.

  4. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    The last part just perfectly contradicted the PR explanation that it's all because of Ogier. If they were commited for 2021 and new rules from 2022 Neuville would have been a real option.
    I think it just confirms that they really did want to compete next year, but were only willing to spend the money if they felt they had a driver capable of winning....they knew they didn’t have much of a chance to get him (Neuville) but they tried anyway...
    I’m sure they will make Ogier pay for breaking the contract tho, either through the courts or an out of court settlement....Toyota may well bankroll the compensation as part of the deal however.

  5. #1435
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Very simplified maths
    I got your point, but it's not only about maths of what's happened before.

    If we talk about team dynamics, there are risks in having both Neuville and Tänak in the same team. Are they both able to perform at the same level with the same consistency in 2020 as they did in 2019? Maybe, but it's far from being certain.

    On the other hand, one could say that the trio of Ogier, Evans and Rovanperä looks to be quite well balanced when it comes to getting the most out of each individual team member. Seb we all know, with Evans having all the tools for being the perfect wingman for him. Kalle will sure do the occasional mistakes, but has huge potential that could be realized already in 2020 in certain rallies.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  6. #1436
    Senior Member BigWorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    so Kaisers yesterday tweet about ''good news'' was citroens withdrawal?
    Good news for her beloved husband.

    For the sport though...

  7. #1437
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWorm View Post
    Good news for her beloved husband.

    For the sport though...
    Newsflash: she might also have her own career and there's a chance she's not solely living through the achievements of her husband.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  8. Likes: AnttiL (21st November 2019),pantealex (21st November 2019)
  9. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    On the other hand, one could say that the trio of Ogier, Evans and Rovanperä looks to be quite well balanced when it comes to getting the most out of each individual team member. Seb we all know, with Evans having all the tools for being the perfect wingman for him. Kalle will sure do the occasional mistakes, but has huge potential that could be realized already in 2020 in certain rallies.
    That's where we disagree. Kalle at this point should learn the car and rallies in a fast car, not be expected to finish and get points. So you are definitely not getting the best out of him. His overall performance level in WRC over the course of a rally is a big enigma.

    This line up would have looked somewhat ok last year and quite good in 2017, but not against the lineup that Hyundai bought.

  10. Likes: the sniper (20th November 2019)
  11. #1439
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
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    #8 Ott Tänak - Martin Järveoja #8
    - World Rally Champions 2019 -

  12. Likes: AnttiL (21st November 2019),Katvala (20th November 2019)
  13. #1440
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Kalle at this point should learn the car and rallies in a fast car, not be expected to finish and get points. So you are definitely not getting the best out of him.
    That exactly was the point, that there's no need to get the theoretical "best" out of him when you have Ogier and Evans in the team.

    But anyway, we'll see how it goes...
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  14. Likes: AnttiL (21st November 2019)

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