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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Was Bernie right about the sprinklers ?
    Absolutely, this is what we need

  2. #72
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    If that's what was needed. Why wasn't the race allowed to start at it's scheduled time?
    Last edited by journeyman racer; 29th July 2019 at 00:34.

  3. #73
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    I loved it how Hamilton asked his team what happened. They should have asked him if he missed the crash but obviously you shouldn't upset the delicate genius. Anyway, an entertaining race but I don't buy into all these "rain master" and "genius strategy" stories that come up after every wet chaotic race. There was a lot down to pure luck. The fact that that waste of a good seat Stroll ended up in 4th is proof enough.
    And no, no sprinklers. It's still a retarded idea. Just as it was after a chaotic Canadian GP, the idea to make them race with shitty tires.

  4. Likes: N. Jones (29th July 2019)
  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben View Post
    I loved it how Hamilton asked his team what happened. They should have asked him if he missed the crash but obviously you shouldn't upset the delicate genius. Anyway, an entertaining race but I don't buy into all these "rain master" and "genius strategy" stories that come up after every wet chaotic race. There was a lot down to pure luck. The fact that that waste of a good seat Stroll ended up in 4th is proof enough.
    And no, no sprinklers. It's still a retarded idea. Just as it was after a chaotic Canadian GP, the idea to make them race with shitty tires.
    I can see how Hamilton will be a bit puzzled. Mercedes were comfortably leading the race before the first safety car. It all went to pots for Mercedes after the 1st safety car. They were all over the place with strategy, tires and pitstops. They ended up out of position due to poor strategy and were on their back foot from then on.

    Luck plays an important role in success. Rarely is success without some element of luck, especially in interchangeable condition as we witnessed at Hockenheim. It is typically identified by such phrase as "the race came to him" as it did for Kyvat and Stroll. To some extent Verstapenn. Vettel is the only driver on the grid that made his on luck on the day as he overtook his way to 2nd place from 20th.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 29th July 2019 at 09:29.
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  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I can see how Hamilton will be a bit puzzled. Mercedes were comfortably leading the race before the first safety car. It all went to pots for Mercedes after the 1st safety car. They were all over the place with strategy, tires and pitstops. They ended up out of position due to poor strategy and were on their back foot from then on.

    Luck plays an important role in success. Rarely is success without some element of luck, especially in interchangeable condition as we witnessed at Hockenheim. It is typically identified by such phrase as "the race came to him" as it did for Kyvat and Stroll. To some extent Verstapenn. Vettel is the only driver on the grid that made his on luck on the day as he overtook his way to 2nd place from 20th.
    Vettel was driver of the day yesterday, without a doubt. It was the most impressive drive I can remember from him in over a year, so good on him. He's not performing at his usual level the last year so maybe this will be the beginning of a turnaround of form.

    As for Hamilton, even after his 50 second pitstop, he could have still won the race. It was a very rare off day in the office for the 5 time WDC, as he was lucky to get away with his second spin and stay in the race. Bottas was not so lucky and smashed out after actually driving a pretty good race himself. Hamilton was perilous out front in the first stint, but once one mistake came the rest just kept on coming. Being ill probably didn't help. Asking where it all went wrong I think was perfectly reasonable. I can't understand why Mercedes didn't pit him under the safety car for new inters when he had his 5 second timed penalty, it made no sense to leave him out there. He also clearly stated on the radio that he thought inters were the correct tires to be on, not soft or super soft but the team appears to have taken that decision out of his hands. Perhaps in future they'll listen to the drive as inters on that occasion would have won them the race.

    As it turns out after the race now, Hamilton scored two points as both Alfa Romeo's have been provided 30 second timed penalties for running illegal clutch settings at the start of the race. The gap is now 41 points at the top. Yesterday was Bottas chance to close the gap in the championship to under a race victory and he blew it unfortunately.

    Verstappen was awesome as well again yesterday. Stroll just poxed into a good race position although I think he deserves some credit for the strategy as I think he was the one that requested it with the team. Hulkenberg could have had his podium today but blew it again.

    I can't say that I found this race particularly exciting. Unlike Austria or Silverstone, I felt this was the worst of the three but it was still entertaining. Austria in particular was the best race to me.

    It's probably too late for Verstappen to challenge for the title given the points gap but one or two more races like this for Mercedes and it can all turn on its head. RBR seem to me to be the second best package behind Mercedes out there now.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 29th July 2019 at 10:10.

  7. Likes: truefan72 (29th July 2019)
  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Vettel was driver of the day yesterday, without a doubt. It was the most impressive drive I can remember from him in over a year, so good on him. He's not performing at his usual level the last year so maybe this will be the beginning of a turnaround of form.

    As for Hamilton, even after his 50 second pitstop, he could have still won the race. It was a very rare off day in the office for the 5 time WDC, as he was lucky to get away with his second spin and stay in the race. Bottas was not so lucky and smashed out after actually driving a pretty good race himself. Hamilton was perilous out front in the first stint, but once one mistake came the rest just kept on coming. Being ill probably didn't help. Asking where it all went wrong I think was perfectly reasonable. I can't understand why Mercedes didn't pit him under the safety car for new inters when he had his 5 second timed penalty, it made no sense to leave him out there. He also clearly stated on the radio that he thought inters were the correct tires to be on, not soft or super soft but the team appears to have taken that decision out of his hands. Perhaps in future they'll listen to the drive as inters on that occasion would have won them the race.

    As it turns out after the race now, Hamilton scored two points as both Alfa Romeo's have been provided 30 second timed penalties for running illegal clutch settings at the start of the race. The gap is now 41 points at the top. Yesterday was Bottas chance to close the gap in the championship to under a race victory and he blew it unfortunately.

    Verstappen was awesome as well again yesterday. Stroll just poxed into a good race position although I think he deserves some credit for the strategy as I think he was the one that requested it with the team. Hulkenberg could have had his podium today but blew it again.

    I can't say that I found this race particularly exciting. Unlike Austria or Silverstone, I felt this was the worst of the three but it was still entertaining. Austria in particular was the best race to me.

    It's probably too late for Verstappen to challenge for the title given the points gap but one or two more races like this for Mercedes and it can all turn on its head. RBR seem to me to be the second best package behind Mercedes out there now.
    I agree, not an exciting race as such but one full of uncertainty and high unpredictability. It was dotted with instances of high emotional intensities as car after cars crashed out of the race or spun. At one point, anyone could have won it. For me, Silverstone was the best race of the season so far. But Austria was just as brilliant.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 29th July 2019 at 10:54.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  9. Likes: truefan72 (29th July 2019)
  10. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I agree, not an exciting race as such but one full of uncertainty and high unpredictability. It was dotted with instances of high emotional intensities as car after cars crashed out of the race or spun. At one point, anyone could have won it. For me, Silverstone was the best race of the season so far. But Austria was just as brilliant.
    Lost in the foray yesterday, was how much the Stewards bottled it with LeClerc's penalty. They imposed a fine on Ferrari yet in Monaco Max Verstappen got a 5 second timed penalty for an unsafe release. Those stewards should be fired and never allowed to officiate a race again.

    When Bottas made his first stop, you can see the Mercedes mechanics looking around for the oncoming RBR and waiting to make sure that there was no unsafe release. There's no excuses for bottling it like that in the Stewards room.

    An unsafe realise is an unsafe release and the penalty must be consistent every time.

  11. Likes: N. Jones (29th July 2019),truefan72 (29th July 2019)
  12. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Lost in the foray yesterday, was how much the Stewards bottled it with LeClerc's penalty. They imposed a fine on Ferrari yet in Monaco Max Verstappen got a 5 second timed penalty for an unsafe release. Those stewards should be fired and never allowed to officiate a race again.

    When Bottas made his first stop, you can see the Mercedes mechanics looking around for the oncoming RBR and waiting to make sure that there was no unsafe release. There's no excuses for bottling it like that in the Stewards room.

    An unsafe realise is an unsafe release and the penalty must be consistent every time.
    I think this may be a new direction that the stewards want to take in the future. After all, it is the team that messed up releasing the car into another cars path. The driver has to rely on the team in that circumstances. Hence, one argument is that the driver should not be punished for the teams error. Hence on this occasion they fined the team and not punish the driver. But l think this is not an adequate punishment, as the teams would be happy to pay to make a beneficial infraction in the future.

    I think a more effective punishment is to apply a ten second penalty on the team after the race and deduct the resulting points lost from the constructors points of the team. That would hit them harder than a fine and the driver is not punished in this scenario.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  13. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think this may be a new direction that the stewards want to take in the future. After all, it is the team that messed up releasing the car into another cars path. The driver has to rely on the team in that circumstances. Hence, one argument is that the driver should not be punished for the teams error. Hence on this occasion they fined the team and not punish the driver. But l think this is not an adequate punishment, as the teams would be happy to pay to make a beneficial infraction in the future.

    I think a more effective punishment is to apply a ten second penalty on the team after the race and deduct the resulting points lost from the constructors points of the team. That would hit them harder than a fine and the driver is not punished in this scenario.
    Mid season is not the time to make this kind of change though. It should be fair game throughout the season and the same for everyone. Why should Verstappen lose points now for Monaco? Depending on what time of the season you commit an infraction you either get a fine or a 5 second timed penalty. It's a complete and utter embarrassment. Consistency is all I ask from the Stewards and they continually move the goal posts. Fire them.

  14. Likes: truefan72 (29th July 2019)
  15. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    Both Alfas penalized for irregular clutch use during the start , so Hamilton scores two points and Kubica his first since 2010 and Williams' first this season.

    30 seconds for 130-230 milliseconds off seem a bit harsh compared to no (time) penalty at all for an unsafe pit-stop release and 5 seconds for an irregular pit entry.

    And this is where the rules enforcement bothers me the most. There is a total lack of consistency, much less the proper (if any) regard to the advantage it created or the danger/risk on others it imposed. So maybe the Alfa's gained a second or two advantage on the start. In any case the advantage they gained was probably equal or less to the advantage gained by Leclerc's unsafe release, and in both cases the breach of regulations was caused by the team rather than driver. But the Leclerc release caused more danger to other drivers and people in the pits, yet no time penalty was given.

    Most of these penalties should be black and white, and known in advance. Unsafe release is "X" seconds time imposed and a "X" amount fine, period. Missing the entry bollard should be "X" seconds if purely driver error on entry, or "Y" seconds for unusual circumstances as in the case with Lewis this race.

    I like the suggestion made by Nitrodaze regarding unsafe release. Take away constructors points and/or drivers points, along with a fine that increases per penalty within a season. As pointed out in the Bottas example by TBK, safe releases can often cost time, but other teams manage them just fine most of the time.

  16. Likes: truefan72 (29th July 2019)

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