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  1. #121
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Some great places on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPehx8aXVbo

    Leg 2 from the ERC channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBR3NCh_lQk

    ERC3-J Leg 2 including accidents of Furuseth, Munster (pretty funny) and a massive big moment of Torn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORCMrzcb2pM
    Last edited by Mirek; 22nd July 2019 at 19:20.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  2. Likes: dimviii (22nd July 2019),Jarek Z (22nd July 2019)
  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mousti View Post
    I think it's just a typical cheap/dodgy team who rents R5 but waits to renew parts till they are completely worn down or broken. So they can compensate with their cheap prices to clients..

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk
    If you knew anything at all about Toksport you would realise what a stupid comment that is.

    You may be better served keeping your libellous comments to yourself.
    Last edited by Got Mail; 23rd July 2019 at 14:58.

  4. Likes: Fast Eddie WRC (22nd July 2019),JUF (23rd July 2019)
  5. #123
    #EE33 #TS3 #GG44 Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Toksport are the main reason Ingram is still in the ERC. They have been more than generous with their support.

    This was crucial when his previous main sponsor pulled out at the last minute. Not to mention all the problems he had getting his Eurosport prize money...

  6. Likes: JUF (23rd July 2019),pantealex (23rd July 2019),WRC1 (23rd July 2019)
  7. #124
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Video with the accident of John Williams (basically the same mistake as Munster), tyre change of Crugnola or IMHO too sharp artifficial jump on the street stage (some flights were impressive though). Very precise driving from Crugnola.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I3kVVdfbSw
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  8. Likes: dimviii (23rd July 2019)
  9. #125
    Senior Member Andre Oliveira's Avatar
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    Alexey Lukyanuk:

    Therefore, here is the story.

    I do not make any conclusions or insinuations and here almost no my personal opinion about the things. Just facts and questions.
    During the Rally DI Roma Capitale our crew was penalized by one minute according STEWARDS DECISION N.7. https://www.rallydiroma.eu/documents..._july_2019.pdf
    In simple words it says, that distance between axles (wheelbase) was about 2mm longer (2570mm instead of 2568,4), than in homologation. The measurements were done after first loop of stages before Service A (less than 25% of the rally). After the measurement, the car was in Park Ferme, and then we had 8 minutes to reach service zone. At that time I was not aware, that something is wrong. When we entered the service, my engineer and mechanics immediately measured the wheelbase in presence of FIA Technical Delegate, Mr. Lionel Carre. And… numbers were the same, as in the workshop before the rally! 2565mm both sides! The answer from FIA Technical Delegate, Mr. Lionel Carre was: “Maybe you adjusted it before service”. But any person from motorsport understand, that it is absolutely not possible to adjust wheelbase by 5mm. Both sides. Driving about 1 km in the city. In 8 minutes (5 of them standing next to Service A Time Control, what could be checked by GPS tracking).
    By the way, the car of my team mate in Sainteloc racing, Hiroki Arai, has been also checked at 2570 mm, so 2mm over the limit but scruteener checked it again and new measurement was 2566 mm. Our engineer is in charge of Arais’s C3R5 and we had the same wheels alignment (Wheelbase, etc..)
    The Team checked again the wheel base back in workshop today, in order to understand how could have been made the mistake by scruteeners, even with the front wheels not completely straight, the wheelbase was conform…
    In the Saturday evening (after day1), there was a meeting of Sainteloc team manager Vincent Ducher, engineer Remi Verlaque and FIA Stewards. All the explanations were given, including measures in service under control of FIA Technical Delegate, Mr. Lionel Carre, Remi made a statement, that the car comply with all regulations and homologation and he will not make any changes to the car till the end of the rally. Also the team presented a data sheet of pre-rally checks with numbers 2565mm at both sides, what, by my opinion was the weakest proof, and… Exactly that data sheet was mentioned in the STEWARDS DECISION N.7, but nothing else… At the same time it is written in the decision, that “FIA Technical Delegate, Mr. Lionel Carre confirms that the measuring of the wheelbase was according to the FIA measuring method” despite he was not present at the procedure in Park Ferme and not attending this meeting.
    Another side of the story. We were informed about the penalty with one-day delay (at 11h30 during regrouping, after 70% of the rally). And as we were still racing, we had no time to make an international appeal (rules is 1h maximum) after notification of stewards decision. And it was 1 minute penalty! It had turned the things upside down dramatically. Should we know it earlier, maybe we could save third place. Yes, Crugnola was faster than we, but we started fighting with him too late!
    The meeting was in the Saturday evening, but the crucial for our rally and championship decision was made only on the next day. And it’s absolutely unknown, why we were given 1 minute. For example, STEWARDS DECISION N.8 about same situation with car #23 of Emma Falcon turned out with 30 seconds. https://www.rallydiroma.eu/documents..._july_2019.pdf

    For me there are many signs, that there was something wrong:
    1. The team DID NO ADJUSTMENTS to the car till the end of the rally!
    2. No more checks of wheelbase during the LEG2 by stewards
    3. Team monitored wheelbase at each service. It was the same.
    4. Strange deviations in measurements for some other cars
    5. Rumors
    In the end, this penalty had significant impact on sporting part of the rally, changing competition itself. We never say "IF", but someone can imagine, that we could finish this event 3 seconds from First Place and score 29 points instead of 22 for the championship.

    I let everyone make his own mind.



    Last edited by Andre Oliveira; 23rd July 2019 at 19:07.

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  11. #126
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    Penalty and measurements is one thing, but he mentions that both his, Arai's and Falcon's car had "normal" 2565-2566 in service and before rally. I get there are tolerances and some small differences from chassis to chassis but isn't it a bit big difference that the "normal" value is 2565 and not 2543 as homologated?

    Speculation(since the stewards also seem to focus on this): has there been some change introduced (by Citroen?) to the geometry that "slightly" changed the normal value from 2543 towards 2565 so that now the car are very close to the maximum value?
    Last edited by mknight; 23rd July 2019 at 20:49.

  12. #127
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    I get there are tolerances and some small differences from chassis to chassis but isn't it a bit big difference that the "normal" value is 2565 and not 2543 as homologated?
    You understand it in a wrong way.

    The rules say that the wheelbase must be same as stock +/-1%. It's up to the manufacturers how they use this possible difference from the stock car. It's not like they must have their nominal values same as the stock car.
    Last edited by Mirek; 23rd July 2019 at 21:17.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  13. #128
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    Ok, thought 2543 was "race" car.

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