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Thread: 2019 Austrian GP - Redbull Ring
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30th June 2019, 20:00 #31
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30th June 2019, 20:03 #32
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just to be clear, I wouldn't have taken the win away, but a several grid place penalty for the next race would be in order. That contact could have easily resulted in one of the cars on it's roll cage.
"Old roats am jake mit goats."
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30th June 2019, 20:24 #33
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If you read my post carefully, you will not find anywhere a statement suggesting penalty is deserved. But simply that a penalty is applicable should the stewards wish to impose one. But l also indicated that discretion is open to the stewards should they wish to prevent a repeat of taking a win away from the proper race winner once again. My post was aimed at showing how hard they have made the situation and why it has become a lottery now they have ruled for Verstapenn.
Not all the stewards are changed for each race, there are elements of the stewarding team that are permanent or are frequently present. On the matter of similarity, similarity is not the issue here, if it was, Riciado and/or Hamilton should have got a warning. On the face of cold evidence, it would be hard to argue a solid case in defense of Verstapenn, his actions could easily be ruled an infraction of the rules. But in the spirit of pure racing, the right decision was taken. Hard racing should not be punished. It was reminiscent of the Hamilton-Rosberg fights of a few years past.
Starter's suggestion of a grid drop at the next race would have at least calmed the critics and Ferrari to an extent.Last edited by Nitrodaze; 1st July 2019 at 16:30.
Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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30th June 2019, 21:44 #34
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ok so we can now establish the strong arming you opponent off the track to gain the position is ok. Just as long as we are all on the same page. I recall alonso getting a penalty for the exact move in silverstone a few years ago and in 2016 Rosberg was handed 10s penalty and two penalty points after collision with Hamilton on the last lap and was lucky to keep his 4th position. so now we know those werent' p[enalties after all right?
Well politics won out at the end of the day tbh. it was a great race anyway. Even rosberg in his vlog admits that max was guilty of mischief on that last corner and that he deserves a penalty. It would have been an unpopular decision, but the right one. deliberately running your opponent off the track to take the lead was rewarded and it would really be interesting to read their reasoning. But here is the summary. Dutch fans, RBR home race, scared about overturning a race victory. I can guarantee you that if this was grosjean on perez, he would have been called in for a drive through or 10s penalty. lolyou can't argue with results.
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30th June 2019, 21:50 #35
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on a side note, If Ferrari had put leclerc and vettel on mediums for Q2, then leclerc would have ran away with this win. The kid looked unbeatable for 69 of 71 laps and the fact that his tires degraded to the point where the pass was on is as much about another ferrar strategy blunder as it was verstappen's brilliant drive.
you can't argue with results.
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1st July 2019, 04:21 #36
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1st July 2019, 04:30 #37
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The Hamilton-Rosberg incident you refer to was also completely different because Hamilton had given Rosberg bundles of room to get around the corner and he didn’t take it. Hamilton had to turn in at some point and Rosberg paid a deserved price for his driving (or lack of it). If you believe Hamilton was at fault here then LeClerc was definitely at fault for the collision here as he was also on the outside of the corner, just as Hamilton was.
I don’t recall and Alonso incident at Silverstone that was the exact same moveas this. Have you a link?
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1st July 2019, 04:35 #38
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Karun Chandhok gives an accurate assessment
Here’s my view... Back in the day, the driver on the outside would have to back out and realise when he’s been beaten. Now, they can keep going, knowing that they can use the asphalt run off and then hope that the argument about “being squeezed off” wins in the stewards room....
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1st July 2019, 07:34 #39
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Not only do I disagree with TBK. He's wrong.
Both drivers were not driving into a wedge. Leclerc was because Verstappen missed the apex of the turn and did not have control of the inertia of his car. closed him off.
The overtake was not done and was still in the process of happening. Verstappen may've need til t3 to finally complete it.
Leclerc did not want to concede, and nor should he. As Verstappen was ahead at the point of contact, he was in the process of passing Verstappen on the straight or into t3. But was impeded by Verstappen who did not account for the inertia of his car.
It's not kindergarten. But F1/racing is not boxing either.
The ball is not the "racing line". The position is (1st/2nd place...). There's actually no such thing as a "racing" line. If there is, it's the whole track.
To use your analogy. Verstappen did not challenge for the ball. He attacked the player first (Hence he was nowhere near the apex), then got the ball.
What Verstappen did would be like corralling Leclerc halfway up the straight (Schumacher style). It's just it was at the beginning of the straight.
Karun Chandhok is wrong as Leclerc was not done. He was in the process of taking a faster exit of t2 (choosing a wider entry). Not only had Leclerc done that the previous lap. He'd actually been doing it throughout the race even when on his own. I saw it often and initially thought he made an error. But he was doing it deliberately.Last edited by journeyman racer; 1st July 2019 at 07:41.
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1st July 2019, 08:03 #40
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It's like with racing on ovals. T2 in Austria is a sharp right hander, and ovals are a long continuous turn even if they're referred to as two turns.
In oval racing, It's common to see the lead car take the high line entering the turn and stay there throughout. If a trailing car get them on the inside, then fine. But the trailing car can't ride up high exiting the t2 and encroach the car they're passing that's on that outside line.
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