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Thread: Formula 1????

  1. #21
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    Disillusion about F1 threads happens nearly every season that has gone stale. Lets face it, this season is as stale as it can get. That is primarily for two reasons; firstly, Ferrari flexed their muscles in winter testing but turned up at the races with a car that really is second best. Secondly, the pirelli tyres are shite. It is not consistent, hence sometimes it suits a team at one race, the next race they are head scratching about where the pace went.

    F1 is still very exciting because the midfield is where the racing is at. And it has not disappointed this season.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 25th June 2019 at 11:24.
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  2. Likes: truefan72 (26th June 2019)
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    I don't really agree with that. I've been slowly losing interest over the past several years and others have too as some of the comments in this thread prove.
    "Old roats am jake mit goats."
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    I don't know. One-team domination seasons are boring. People want to see actual fights for the lead and/or podium places. I think one thing that would help is dropping the points back to sixth. Half of the grid scoring just rewards mediocrity.
    Fully agree. That’s always been an bug bear of mine that 50% of the grid gets rewarded points. Top 6 drivers scoring points is better. I remember Marussia scoring their first points, I couldn’t help but think well, ye’d still be pointless under the top 6 points rewards system.

  5. Likes: N. Jones (25th June 2019)
  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I don't really agree with that. I've been slowly losing interest over the past several years and others have too as some of the comments in this thread prove.
    People say things like there are no crashes anymore, cars don't brakedown any more. The absence of these things are due to the maturity of the sport. Drivers have got better at avoiding crashes but it still happens. Manufacturers have got better at building highly resilient engines and parts. This essentially is progress.

    Where l mostly agree with you is that, there is no proper fight for the lead and podium places in F1. Close quarter racing is still impossible. And Mercedes has taken team efficiency to another level. Even with a car that appeared to be down on straight line speed compared to the Ferrari, they have produced a car that is faster over a whole lap than the Ferrari. So the one team domination continues.

    Paul Ricard circuit is probably one of the few tracks that do not punish drivers for going off track. This is not the norm.

    I would say that the 2021 season may offer the answer to many of your disillusions. As close quarter racing will be the norm. Winning would be harder. One hopes the Honda engine would be on par with the Ferrari engine by then. This would put Verstapenn squarely in the fight at the front. What can be more exciting than that.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 25th June 2019 at 08:13.
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    Are we even half-way through the season yet ?

    The Merc can still break down . We haven't seen any of that yet .
    The reds could catch up . It would only take an update that actually works .
    And , lets not forget that Newey still works for the bulls .
    None of the rest are standing still , either .

    Damn , you guys .
    It aint over 'til it's over ya know .
    They aren't that far ahead .

    The defeatist idea that we just have to survive until 2021 is too much for me , I'm afraid .
    I am quite sure we'll see a lot of good racing before then .

  8. Likes: Duncan (26th June 2019),truefan72 (26th June 2019)
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    Oh, I'll keep watching, hard to run the fantasy stuff without watching a race! I just think this is the Merc dominance decade and it will end like all others before it did.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

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    I think people forget that there has been some great seasons recently. 2017 and 2018 were two great seasons. 2018 in particular was hard for Mercedes. Some even thought Ferrari had it in the bag before a series of errors let Mercedes off the hook.

    We all expected Ferrari to take things to a higher level from where they left off in 2018, but that has turned out to be a possible farce. You could argue that Ferrari put their season at risk by sacking their racing director just before the season commenced. Such a dramatic change is bound to have some impact on morale and focus. There is no good time for doing such a thing anyway. Personally, l would let the man who pulled Ferrari from the doldrums of win less years deliver on his promise.

    Mind you, Mercedes had a double DNF at the Austrian race last season, chance are history may repeat itself at this weekend's race. I have a feeling, the bulletproof Mercedes engines would finish the race without any problems.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 25th June 2019 at 20:20.
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  11. Likes: Duncan (26th June 2019)
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    It is not as if FIA haven't tried to throw all kinds of changes to essentially strip the mercedes dominance.
    Like what?

    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    In 2017 Ferrari had 5 wins and RBR 3 wins. Vettel unraveled and the singapore madness saw the incident with all top cars of kimi vettel and verstappen get into a first corner incident, with clearly a slower mercedes picking up the points. BTW Vettel was leading the championship going into that race.
    Hamilton led the championship standings from Vettel, 238-235.

  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    People say things like there are no crashes anymore, cars don't brakedown any more. The absence of these things are due to the maturity of the sport. Drivers have got better at avoiding crashes but it still happens. Manufacturers have got better at building highly resilient engines and parts. This essentially is progress.

    Where l mostly agree with you is that, there is no proper fight for the lead and podium places in F1. Close quarter racing is still impossible. And Mercedes has taken team efficiency to another level. Even with a car that appeared to be down on straight line speed compared to the Ferrari, they have produced a car that is faster over a whole lap than the Ferrari. So the one team domination continues.

    Paul Ricard circuit is probably one of the few tracks that do not punish drivers for going off track. This is not the norm.

    I would say that the 2021 season may offer the answer to many of your disillusions. As close quarter racing will be the norm. Winning would be harder. One hopes the Honda engine would be on par with the Ferrari engine by then. This would put Verstapenn squarely in the fight at the front. What can be more exciting than that.
    I just want to address the parts I've high lighted. I have to disagree with you here. The absence of breakdowns has nothing to do with the 'maturity of the sport' as you say. It has to do with the FIA's attempt at parity and cost savings. Progress? The teams have been restricted from progress. Ten years ago or so, engine rev's were increasing every other year. That was progress. Now they are restricted to an upper limit. Without that limit, they'd be revving at over 20,000rpm these days. That would be the cutting edge - progress. Sure, they would blow more often, but that's exactly because they'd be at the edge. Now, everybody runs at 80% so they can make the engines last 5 or 6 races. Party mode takes us to 85%. The engineers must be extremely frustrated. Someone once said something like 'The perfectly engineered race car is the fastest one that breaks down right after the finish line and anything more is over engineered." Well today's F1 cars are closer to passenger car reliability than F1 cars of the past because they are so far from the edge.
    Here's an analogy for you: (all hypothetical - I don't do long distance) A few friends and I are marathon runners. We train quite a bit and some of us can finish under three hours on occasion. When we push this hard, sometimes we set new personal bests, but sometimes we may pass out or collapse and not finish the race. Our wives say this is too costly and dangerous for us. They've said that if we want to continue running, we need to keep our heartbeat below 120 bpm. So now we all finish very closely to one another at about the five hour mark. We finish virtually every race - no one is collapsing and some aren't even breathing very hard. Some of us say that we have matured in our sport and that this is essentially progress. To those I say 'We are no longer racing, but merely going for a leisurely run.'

  14. Likes: gm99 (26th June 2019)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstgear View Post
    I just want to address the parts I've high lighted. I have to disagree with you here. The absence of breakdowns has nothing to do with the 'maturity of the sport' as you say. It has to do with the FIA's attempt at parity and cost savings. Progress? The teams have been restricted from progress. Ten years ago or so, engine rev's were increasing every other year. That was progress. Now they are restricted to an upper limit. Without that limit, they'd be revving at over 20,000rpm these days. That would be the cutting edge - progress. Sure, they would blow more often, but that's exactly because they'd be at the edge. Now, everybody runs at 80% so they can make the engines last 5 or 6 races. Party mode takes us to 85%. The engineers must be extremely frustrated. Someone once said something like 'The perfectly engineered race car is the fastest one that breaks down right after the finish line and anything more is over engineered." Well today's F1 cars are closer to passenger car reliability than F1 cars of the past because they are so far from the edge.
    Here's an analogy for you: (all hypothetical - I don't do long distance) A few friends and I are marathon runners. We train quite a bit and some of us can finish under three hours on occasion. When we push this hard, sometimes we set new personal bests, but sometimes we may pass out or collapse and not finish the race. Our wives say this is too costly and dangerous for us. They've said that if we want to continue running, we need to keep our heartbeat below 120 bpm. So now we all finish very closely to one another at about the five hour mark. We finish virtually every race - no one is collapsing and some aren't even breathing very hard. Some of us say that we have matured in our sport and that this is essentially progress. To those I say 'We are no longer racing, but merely going for a leisurely run.'
    It is interesting that you raise a quote from an era where a new engine was used at every race and each team had a spare car, just in case their driver smashed their car at free practise, they had the comfort of an immediate replacement car. Which was one of the reasons why F1 costs ballooned as the engines and aerodynamic parts got more complex and pricey. Those were wasteful but exciting years but we are in a new reality where F1 is attempting to reduce unnecesary waste and costs.

    The FIA and the F1 establishment have looked at the impact of racing on the planet and have taken steps to reducing the fuel consumption and the size of the engine cylinders to 1.6 litres. They have been relentless on improving safety, the halo is the most recent manifestation of that. They have taken steps towards reducing costs by getting teams to run four engines per year and got rid of the spare car.

    Engineers have taken these stringent constraints and produced engines that are as fast; if not faster than their 3.0 litres predecessors that powered Schumacher to seven world championship titles. This is where progress is to be found. The maturity aspect l was referring to, relates to how they accomplished that feat with minimal engine failures in the first season of its enforcement and almost none in recent times. Exceptions to the Honda that was breaking into the sport at the time and had teething problems. Also how drivers learnt how to get through a race weekend without the availability of a spare car.

    I think you would only notice engine conservation at the sharp end of the grid. Mainly because the competitors are not close enough to properly pressurize each other for the win of the race. In the midfield, that luxury is rare, except for those outside the possibility of being in the top ten or when racing at Monaco.

    Running the engine until it pops does not impress really, especially when you take into consideration that F1 is where most technology in road going cars originate. From your power steering, ABS brakes, traction control, cruise control etc to energy regeneration from when you apply your brakes etc etc etc. If you buy a car that is guaranteed to run for five years and it konks out at five years on the dot, that is not really impressive engineering. You would like to get more than your moneys worth if you can get it to five years without smashing it.

    So, l hear your point, but you have to realize that time has changed and you have to change with it. The old ways cannot apply anymore, otherwise motorsport in general would come under heavy criticism and scrutiny. And we may end up watching reruns of races going forward as a consequence.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 27th June 2019 at 00:38.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  16. Likes: truefan72 (27th June 2019)

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