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Thread: Formula 1????

  1. #11
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    The problem with the track limits and the penalties is due to the fact that, thanks to the prevalence of mickey mouse race tracks, the track limits are no longer where the physical race track ends. In the old days, there was no need to police track limits on many venues because outside of the track limits there was grass or sand. Put your wheel over there, or both, and your car will get seriously unsettled, wheels will get dirty, and in fact you may get stuck in the kitty litter and your race is over! But in our days, cars that put the wheels outside of track limits will always return back to the race, and in fact, as we often see, while gaining an advantage! This issue is not easy to fix. I mean it's unlikely that the pavement around the track limits will be torn apart just to return to "pure racing". This is why there are penalties.

    Another problem is the power unit reliability rules. These were ostensibly introduced to reduce the costs of engine supply. However, seeing now that the cost of engine supply is still often the biggest bill paid by the privateer teams, the cost savings from this are doubtful. However, the unintended result of these rules is the incredible reliability of cars. We no longer see cars blowing blue smoke and catching fire on regular basis. This combined with the mickey mouse tracks that don't naturally punish drivers for veering off track limits results in very little attrition and unpredictability. In 1980s and 90s, there were often races with just barely a dozen cars finishing. In some races barely six cars saw checkered flag. Some backmarker cars could ended up scoring points and even podiums when they were reliable enough.

    And finally, the DRS, the king of slingshot overtakes has greatly reduced the amount of close racing and heroic drives. It seems among these three issue only the DRS/aero could be somehow reworked or changed.
    Last edited by zako85; 24th June 2019 at 00:37.

  2. #12
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    No , I don't agree , Steve .

    Sure , F1 has issues , but it has always been thus .

    I , for one , am still in awe of the technology that goes into it , and the skill requiring everyone to be as close to perfect as they can be , or suffer the consequences .
    I don't like DRS , but all of them must deal with that variant in the rules equally .
    The same goes for the tires .

    Having lived through the Red Shoe era , where everyone and their uncle was whining about the domination , it just sounds all so boring to hear people whining about the same thing now .

    The winners aren't the only people in the race , you know .

    And , there in the background is the looming rule shuffle , in which a few of the issues you have with F1 are being addressed .

    I've been watching F1 since the time when we only got Monaco on TV here , and have always been in awe of the speed , the tech , and the drivers .


    No disrespect , Steve , but while Lewis was dominating the race , I was still sitting in fine Murray Walker form on my couch knowing anything can happen in formula 1 , and it usually does .
    I was remembering the smoke out the back of Bottas's car on the way the the grid . I was wondering if Lando's car would pop for a safety car stint . I was watching the tire blistering on a few cars .

    I would have liked a few more incidents to occur , to mix it up , and to liven this place up , like Montreal did , but I still enjoyed the race .

    And , even though there are things worth changing about the series , like there always are , I still enjoy the show .
    Yup, My sentiments exactly.
    Especially since i came on these boards around 2005, when we were still in the midst of total ferrari domination. and some of these very same posters (including ioan ) were singing the praises of ferrari, msc and that other teams need to step it up. Then we went through the Alonso years, the mclaren ferrari domination from 2007-2008, brawn blowing away the field in 2009, the absolute redbull dominance from 2010-2013, and now the mercedes era. It is only in the latter that these same guys now are bitching about the dominance and threatening to retire from watching F1.

    It is not as if FIA haven't tried to throw all kinds of changes to essentially strip the mercedes dominance. It's also not as if it has been a red bull, williams or ferrari absolute domination for the entirety. 2015 & 2016 were dominant and 2019 is still to be played out, (where everyone was sure ferrari had their number with yet more rules changes and missed opportunities in bahrain and china).

    The mercedes cars were not bulletproof in 2018 with RBR taking 4 victories amd Ferrari 6. If it were not for the meltdown at Ferrari and Vettel, 2018 could have been theirs in both championships.

    In 2017 Ferrari had 5 wins and RBR 3 wins. Vettel unraveled and the singapore madness saw the incident with all top cars of kimi vettel and verstappen get into a first corner incident, with clearly a slower mercedes picking up the points. BTW Vettel was leading the championship going into that race.

    I just find it tiresome with this constant talk of F1 not being the same anymore from a race day perspective, when the reality is that, at worst, this has been the same script written throughout it's history and most of the folks complaining have been along for that ride the whole time. This notion that the races are not entertaining because the podiums seem out of reach for the vast majority of the field is really quite comical as this is pretty much the case in every league around from the beginning of time. from lemans, to motogp, to rally, superbikes, WTTC etc.

    oh well
    Last edited by truefan72; 24th June 2019 at 10:46.

  3. Likes: Bagwan (24th June 2019),N. Jones (24th June 2019)
  4. #13
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    Much of what ails the top levels of racing can be summed up in one word - aero. While the introduction of wings brought new ideas, experimentation and innovation to racing, over time it has also contributed greatly to taking the on track action out of the driver's hands and putting it into the engineer's. There are now gimmicks to correct aero like DRS and "push to pass" which add nothing and are obvious band aids. Take wings off the cars and you'll see cars where drivers have much more input and control over the vehicles. Passing zones will open up more and the actual racing should be better.
    "Old roats am jake mit goats."
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    I remember , long ago before CFD , Brundle remarking about how fast the drivers were still able to go without various pieces of the aero kit , having busted them off over curbing somewhere .
    It was a jab at how much money was spent on such things , back when there was much more guessing involved .

    It brings to mind Enzo's remark that "aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines " .
    And that brings to mind the thought that a part of the "bullet-proof" issue we have , with only rare failures further ensuring the order stays static often , is the rule that states they may only use 3 without penalty .
    With a budget cap , perhaps they could do away with the limit , or at least relax it a bit , so we might see them turn the wick up now and then .


    The one thing I see that I really like in the new rules proposed is the loss of tire warmers .
    That brings in a new , old skill .

  7. Likes: N. Jones (24th June 2019),truefan72 (24th June 2019)
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    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I remember , long ago before CFD , Brundle remarking about how fast the drivers were still able to go without various pieces of the aero kit , having busted them off over curbing somewhere .
    It was a jab at how much money was spent on such things , back when there was much more guessing involved .

    It brings to mind Enzo's remark that "aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines " .
    And that brings to mind the thought that a part of the "bullet-proof" issue we have , with only rare failures further ensuring the order stays static often , is the rule that states they may only use 3 without penalty .
    With a budget cap , perhaps they could do away with the limit , or at least relax it a bit , so we might see them turn the wick up now and then .


    The one thing I see that I really like in the new rules proposed is the loss of tire warmers .
    That brings in a new , old skill .
    I agree Bagwan, except, i do like tire warmers. because I'd rather see decent racing than an incident because the cold tires couldn't be switched on on certain tracks.
    I would scrap the engine rule. not because it would promote faster cars ( these cars are breaking all track records in terms of speed anyway) but because of the stupid penalties that are levied on drivers.
    I'd also say that the gearbox and other component penalties need to be removed, or at least doubled to avoid more undue penalties.

    I think this iteration of the cars are pretty decent and with all the complaints about overtaking, are still capable of closing in on a car and passing them.
    The problem is more with some of the tracks in my opinion.
    some need to be a bit wider IMO
    and bring back Malaysia. lol
    you can't argue with results

  9. #16
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Is this really a problem or is it a problem because we are going through one-team domination a-la Ferrari in the early 2000's?
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    Is this really a problem or is it a problem because we are going through one-team domination a-la Ferrari in the early 2000's?
    Both?
    "Old roats am jake mit goats."
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  12. #18
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    ioan - whatever happen to that person?
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  13. #19
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    Both?
    I don't know. One-team domination seasons are boring. People want to see actual fights for the lead and/or podium places. I think one thing that would help is dropping the points back to sixth. Half of the grid scoring just rewards mediocrity.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  14. #20
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    There really only is 3 teams in formula1 just now but thats happened for years too, the other 7 teams are just making up the numbers, red bull know they cant challenge mercedes so redbull are snapping at ferraris heels, williams have lost the plot aswell.

    The last exiting year for formula 1 for me was 2012, that season had everything and since the hybrid era things have not been great but i still watch it and i will continue to watch f1, maybe liberty media has messed things up since they took over in 2016 too, maybe the driver is given a lot less to do now which is the reason its not as exiting who knows but the new rules in 2021 could make a difference.

    On a side note with mercedes dominating, does anyone have an idea why, its just that i think ferrari and redbull seem to be ran very well, its obviously a mercedes f1 team secret how they are doing it but one thing i can think of is the length of the mercedes, its the longest car out there, in rallying which is a completely different motorsport you need small nimble cars mostly these days but with f1 i,m wondering if the extra length is giving the car more downforce and the edge over the other cars, just speculating ofcourse.

  15. Likes: truefan72 (26th June 2019)

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