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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    I'm glad you agree with me that the penalty was deserved.

    As an impartial F1 fan. You're obviously annoyed that Hamilton did the same thing to Ricciardo in Monaco 2016 (at the chicane) and received no penalty for it.
    No, he didn't. Hamilton didn't rejoin the track in an unsafe manner it's quite a different situation. I do agree, however, that it was borderline penalty territory from Hamilton on that occasion the way he squeezed Ricciardo on the exit. The stewards never explained that decision not to penalise so we'll have to assume there's a rationale behind their decision not to penalise there.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 10th June 2019 at 12:53.

  2. #62
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM

    Nico Rosberg tells it as it is. This appears to be a case of he who screams the loudest gets the headlines. As I said already, Vettel could have avoided the Lewis squeeze and that's why he got the penalty and the penalty was deserved.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 10th June 2019 at 14:37.

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  4. #63
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    As I understand it , he was given a penalty for re-entering the track unsafely , but that's not what the stewards seem to be saying .
    They seem to be showing him as having regained control , looking in his mirrors , and realizing the Hamilton was coming on his right , steering to the right , to squeeze Ham between the wall and himself .

    If this is the justification for the penalty , should it not be a penalty for forcing another driver off track ?

    That aside , the penalty seems to me to be as close a call as the wall was when Lewis made the decision to brake .
    I'd say the decision would be a cut and dried situation , had the track been one car wider , with Seb gaining control when he did .


    One other thought that I had while I watched the podium ceremony was to wonder if Lewis would come under any scrutiny for pulling Seb onto the top step with him , as this was what Michael did with Rubens once , only to receive surprisingly severe sanctioning fines for breach of protocol .

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    As I understand it , he was given a penalty for re-entering the track unsafely , but that's not what the stewards seem to be saying .
    They seem to be showing him as having regained control , looking in his mirrors , and realizing the Hamilton was coming on his right , steering to the right , to squeeze Ham between the wall and himself .

    If this is the justification for the penalty , should it not be a penalty for forcing another driver off track ?

    That aside , the penalty seems to me to be as close a call as the wall was when Lewis made the decision to brake .
    I'd say the decision would be a cut and dried situation , had the track been one car wider , with Seb gaining control when he did .


    One other thought that I had while I watched the podium ceremony was to wonder if Lewis would come under any scrutiny for pulling Seb onto the top step with him , as this was what Michael did with Rubens once , only to receive surprisingly severe sanctioning fines for breach of protocol .
    I get your point but it was all part of the one move upon reentry to the track. He didn't force Lewis off the track because the only place off track in that area of the circuit is the green part Sebastien drove through.

  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    I get your point but it was all part of the one move upon reentry to the track. He didn't force Lewis off the track because the only place off track in that area of the circuit is the green part Sebastien drove through.
    I beg to disagree here .
    The track limit is the white line , is it not ?

    It's hard to see whether his wheels are completely outside the white line , in the onboard shots , but it looked to me that Lewis was about as far off track as one can get there , before backing out of it .

    But , the stewards used the fact that he had regained control already , and knew Lewis was there , when he steered towards the wall .
    If it was "all one move" as you suggest , does it not somewhat justify Seb's complaint that he was still regaining control ?

  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I beg to disagree here .
    The track limit is the white line , is it not ?

    It's hard to see whether his wheels are completely outside the white line , in the onboard shots , but it looked to me that Lewis was about as far off track as one can get there , before backing out of it .

    But , the stewards used the fact that he had regained control already , and knew Lewis was there , when he steered towards the wall .
    If it was "all one move" as you suggest , does it not somewhat justify Seb's complaint that he was still regaining control ?
    No, can't agree with this, although there is a fuzzy white line open to interpretation there. You can be in control of your car and still recovering from your incident. Fending off and blocking Hamilton was all part of that recovery.

  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    No, can't agree with this, although there is a fuzzy white line open to interpretation there. You can be in control of your car and still recovering from your incident. Fending off and blocking Hamilton was all part of that recovery.
    Good debate TBK .
    "still recovering from your incident" is what's important here .
    He insists he was .

    But the stewards seem to think he had full control , and the knowledge that Ham was there , hoping to come through .
    Hamilton was set up perfectly , had there been space .
    But he backed out of it , very wisely , with Seb careening across the track , as the gap was closing .

    Simple physics tells us that it was only then that Seb moved across that white line , as they didn't touch .


    Now , if I could , I'd like to touch on the drivers' reactions .
    First , we all saw how pissed Seb was . That would be a normal thing , even if he was completely at fault , as drivers in general , and Seb in particular are often petulant turds in these situations .

    However , Hamilton wasn't ranting at all about almost being put in the wall , and that's not normal at all .
    His moving Seb onto the top step more than suggests he doesn't agree with the German being sanctioned .
    His reaction plays to the thought that Seb was still recovering , and he would have had the best seat in the house to see the lurid slide Seb had as he came off the curbing , and thus , dabbed the brakes .


    I think we pretty close in our opinions here , as I'd totally agree with you , had the incident occurred on a very slightly wider piece of track .

    Note also , that you are agreeing with the stewards here . Doesn't that make you just a little bit nervous ? hee hee .

  10. #68
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    Ok... regardless of whether it was deserved or not. That one could go on forever.

    What about the penalty? For me it was the anti-racing, it robbed us of an exciting finale to the race. Cant help but feel that ordering Vettel to let Hamilton through would have been a far far superior decision.
    Instead of Lewis just following him home within the 5 sec window... it would have given Seb the chance to come back at Lewis and it wouldnt have totally ruined the race.

    I sincerely hope that Liberty recognise this and re-evaluate their current penalties to instead be pro racing.

  11. Likes: Bagwan (10th June 2019),Duncan (11th June 2019),journeyman racer (11th June 2019),Mia 01 (11th June 2019)
  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveaki13 View Post
    Anyone thinking that motorsport should have penalties like that I cannot even believe that they want to watch it.

    I remember fondly a time when racing drivers took their chances and raced hard.

    This is why the sport I once loved is now dying in my opinion. I despair
    I can't argue with your views here. That really was the sentiment this weekend. The penalty raised the question, "why is Vettel not allow to fight for his position advantage, once he was back on track?", "Why should he hand the advantage to Hamilton or make it easier for Hamilton to overtake him?".

    The scene that was offensive was clearly hard racing and ought not be punishable. No real F1 fan would expect anything less. The thing was that Vettel squeezed just the right amount and well within safe parameters. Certainly enough for the situation to be within Hamilton's capability to deal with it and make a correction in time to avoid a collision. These are two of the most successful racing drivers of the current era? Surely theyy can be given a discretionary benefit of the doubt that such a move is well within the skills and capability of either driver to handle. This was not a Rosberg type squeeze of Barcelona 2016 that end with a crash.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  13. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    Ok... regardless of whether it was deserved or not. That one could go on forever.

    What about the penalty? For me it was the anti-racing, it robbed us of an exciting finale to the race. Cant help but feel that ordering Vettel to let Hamilton through would have been a far far superior decision.
    Instead of Lewis just following him home within the 5 sec window... it would have given Seb the chance to come back at Lewis and it wouldnt have totally ruined the race.

    I sincerely hope that Liberty recognise this and re-evaluate their current penalties to instead be pro racing.
    If he deserved penalty , I like your idea of switching the order .

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