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  1. #941
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    Racing EVs can be fun to spectate, even more so than petrol cars in slow corners. It's all down to design choices, the only real issue is sound as mentioned many times. Not like we haven't seen that before with "silent" N4 evos.

    If by "current motorsport audience" you mean european men of 50+ age then that is true to some degree. But only some, as mentioned quite a large part of people buying Tesla 3 are previous BMW 3-series owners. Which is a typical "cheap" motorhead car. Even in CZ with almost no electric cars you got people actually attending the EV "rally" (with normal EV cars) for "motorsport" competition. That doesn't fit your narrative of people that buy electric not being interested in automotive competition.

    But it's the boys of 10-15 or even less you should look for real future. And those often already look at petrol car as something that is too slow and unnecessary complicated. "Why drive this petrol car when that Tesla/Porsche Taycan/Rimac etc. is faster?" That's like using dial-up internet instead of fiber broadband because you like the modem-connecting sound. The same kind of boys that buy an electric drone and go racing with it, rather than making rc plane with petrol engine from scratch.

    This is the kind of trends you start seeing when there actually are many electric cars around. (here for last 3 months over 50% of new car sales are electric).

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  3. #942
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Sorry, but no.

    The aim of the motorsport is to go as fast as possible and one of the advantages of EVs is that you have a perfect chance to regulate the torque and its split on the wheels, i.e. it's much easier to have perfect traction with EV than with the combustion car (especially with purely mechanical one). Making them more spectacular means making them artifficially slower. Nobody would ever opt for that willingly.

    I have been attending electric races for some time and I know people involved in design of such cars. My conclusion based on long term observation is that EV setting faster times than combustion car still looks and sounds as entertaining as a trolleybus.

    EV sales have nearly nothing to do with motorsport. The people who buy EVs don't buy them becuase of Formula E or whatever electric series. Also very large part of these sales is purely becuase of government policy and subsidies.

    Please don't even start about EV rally here in CZ. It's better to speak from perpective of other countries because here the rally audience is nearly 100% hostile to EV. Maybe if You come and see You wound not start with it...
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  5. #943
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    You just took everything backwards just like before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Sorry, but no.

    The aim of the motorsport is to go as fast as possible and one of the advantages of EVs is that you have a perfect chance to regulate the torque and its split on the wheels, i.e. it's much easier to have perfect traction with EV than with the combustion car (especially with purely mechanical one). Making them more spectacular means making them artifficially slower. Nobody would ever opt for that willingly.
    Racing cars being "artifically" slower is the standard of all motorsport for quite a few years.

    WRC cars could have 3 active difs, fully active suspension (like F1 as far back as in 1992-3), fan-assited active aero, various traction and stability control and no restrictors...quite a lot of this is now standard on even mid-price range cars, not to mention sports cars.

    Yet rally cars don't have it (yes a lot of that is due to "costs") and are artifically slower and at the same time more "spectacular". Same kind of balancing has to be done for electric racing cars.

    EV sales have nearly nothing to do with motorsport. The people who buy EVs don't buy them becuase of Formula E or whatever electric series. Also very large part of these sales is purely becuase of government policy and subsidies.
    Here you completely misunderstood me on the main point:
    When majority of the population buys electric cars (as it does now in Norway), the proportion of the owners interested in automotive racing is about the same as with petrol cars.

    (that right now EVs are competetive on the market mostly due to subsidies and/or restrictions is not the topic here, the topic is what happens when they are sold to the masses)
    It's not like those 5-10% of "car enthusiasts" suddenly disappear. Similarly small boys still play with cars and still watch (animated) races on children shows.

    On a side note, quite a lot of people actually do buy EV cars because of their performance (acceleration) even when they are more expensive.


    Please don't even start about EV rally here in CZ. It's better to speak from perpective of other countries because here the rally audience is nearly 100% hostile to EV. Maybe if You come and see You wound not start with it...
    I have followed what happened on Bohemia rally very closely. My point from that, which you again completely missed, is that those people driving the "EV Rally" certainly were interested in "automotive competition" something you declared impossible among EV buyers, and they are interested in that in just about the most anti-EV country in Europe.

    The rally Bohemia affair also illustrates my first point. Off course consumer EVs straight from the store are hardly spectacular to watch, just like stock petrol (non-sports) cars are.

  6. #944
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Racing cars being "artifically" slower is the standard of all motorsport for quite a few years.

    WRC cars could have 3 active difs, fully active suspension (like F1 as far back as in 1992-3), fan-assited active aero, various traction and stability control and no restrictors...quite a lot of this is now standard on even mid-price range cars, not to mention sports cars.

    Yet rally cars don't have it (yes a lot of that is due to "costs") and are artifically slower and at the same time more "spectacular". Same kind of balancing has to be done for electric racing cars.
    Fully active WRC cars with fully active suspension is still waaaaay more spectacular than a very rough EV.

    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Here you completely misunderstood me on the main point:
    When majority of the population buys electric cars (as it does now in Norway), the proportion of the owners interested in automotive racing is about the same as with petrol cars.

    (that right now EVs are competetive on the market mostly due to subsidies and/or restrictions is not the topic here, the topic is what happens when they are sold to the masses)
    It's not like those 5-10% of "car enthusiasts" suddenly disappear. Similarly small boys still play with cars and still watch (animated) races on children shows.

    On a side note, quite a lot of people actually do buy EV cars because of their performance (acceleration) even when they are more expensive.
    They don't disappear but they having EV doesn't mean they want to watch it in rally. That is completely different thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    I have followed what happened on Bohemia rally very closely. My point from that, which you again completely missed, is that those people driving the "EV Rally" certainly were interested in "automotive competition" something you declared impossible among EV buyers, and they are interested in that in just about the most anti-EV country in Europe.

    The rally Bohemia affair also illustrates my first point. Off course consumer EVs straight from the store are hardly spectacular to watch, just like stock petrol (non-sports) cars are.
    My company sent two crews in the EV rally last year (part of Barum) just because it's politically correct to show something green. We have nearly 5000 employees here in CZ yet it was very difficult to find someone who would actually want to go there and drive. Guess what happened this year? We sent no-one because nobody was intrested to drive it even when it was fully paid by the company. This is how it is being seen here. It's by far majority just a politically motivated activities of global companies what is behind this and not the public interest which is close to zero.
    Last edited by Mirek; 13th October 2019 at 14:19.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  8. #945
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    If you think that the best way to ensure future of motorsport is to fight against EV ecolological issues then you have a real problem.
    Instead they should actively promote motorsport as an arena to show that
    a) EV can be "fun/entertaining" even for petrolheads. Quote from Top Gear test of Tesla Roadster quite many years ago: "The first electric car that you actually want to buy".
    (for the deniers, yes EVs can be fun/entertaining, just depends on the design, only real issue is sound, which can be added artifically. Then again rally car on a gravel stage does make quite many sounds even without engine, same on tarmac at anything over 90 kph)
    You're being foolish calling deniers to those who question EV's pollution issues: EV's issues are real, as are those raised by many of the alleged eco friendly policies; without openly talk about them we'll never get a better environment.

    Btw, we're starting to live in a sort of green tyranny where everyone is forced to endorse deceiving policies that won't do nothing rather than relief, for a limited time, the pressure of a public opinion heavily manipulated by eco fundamentalists.

    We should be smarter than that.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  10. #946
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    S K O D A is P R O Champion 2019

    Their lead is 53 points

    and MSport can score max 25 points (they have only 1 car in Catalonia and 0 in Australia)
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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  12. #947
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    Not decided before we see Australia entrylist.
    Loubet, Guerra, Bulacia and Andolfi can count Australia if they want.
    For Gryazin and Kajetanowicz Catalonia is last chance.
    That means Loubet is the only one who can win it before Australia entrylist and that´s not going to happen. He must be minimum 2nd and others can´t score nothing, otherwise point diference is less than 25points after Catalonia.
    So the entry list for Australia is now published and Loubet, Guerra, Bulacia and Andolfi are present there:
    https://rallyaustralia.com.au/wp-con...approved-1.pdf

    I think that Loubet is in the best situation to win this championship:
    https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/results...37-256---.html
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

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  14. #948
    Senior Member skarderud's Avatar
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    Heard today that Veiby is ready for a factoryseat next year, what can it be?
    Not Škoda i presume

    Hyundai or citröen maybe, or some semi-factory VW team? Together with Solberg and Kristofferson?

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    KNA Lillehammer Motorsport

  15. #949
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    Who means he is "ready" ? Doesn't mean much if only he or his father means it and nobody wants to pay.
    Tidemand has been "ready" for WRC for last 3 years...

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  17. #950
    Senior Member skarderud's Avatar
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    I understanded that it is a closed deal, but "forgot" to ask about more details.

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