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  1. #171
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Pluto spent years doing logistics for several teams so I guess he has an idea.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Pluto spent years doing logistics for several teams so I guess he has an idea.
    Lets say Kalle rents a Fabia from TGS for a rally in Germany. How does the logistics change between national/WRC2 rounds? Well it doesn't.

  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    New Fiesta will not be soon, I dont expect to have it in the first half of the season...
    Quote Originally Posted by dodge33cymru View Post
    I thought I read they were aiming for Finland, but I may well be mixed up with the Fabia (or taking speculation as news)
    I asked Malcolm personally as he was leaving ASI today! He said July.

    (Not relevant but I also asked him whether there'd be an M-Sport version of the new Mk7 Fiesta road car, like there was with the last generation Fiesta in the UK. Unfortunately he said there were currently no plans for that...)

  5. Likes: dodge33cymru (13th January 2019),Fast Eddie WRC (13th January 2019),Jarek Z (13th January 2019)
  6. #174
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Essaj View Post
    Lets say Kalle rents a Fabia from TGS for a rally in Germany. How does the logistics change between national/WRC2 rounds? Well it doesn't.
    Completely different fuel, i.e. different ECU maps (that's more of a problem for someone who is doing the first WRC event with his own team), likely different tyres, much more spare parts needed (that also means you have much more money in the spare parts), more tyres, more fuel needed for WRC event. Everything has to be prepared several days earlier. Much more paperwork. More difficult to plan part rebuilds/changes as what you could do without a change in national event you often can't do in a WRC event, moreover you have much less time for that. Parts which should survive another national event before change/rebuild may need to be changed/rebuilt already before the event. It's many small differences which make the WRC event logistics way more difficult.

    It's even more difficult because every event is a new territory and you absolutely must test and test a lot. That's not the case of national events where you drive in the same territory which you know and for which you have setups. Also different fuel and tyres need extra testing to develop a setup for them. the new territory also means that to arrange anything will likely take more time and energy than at home where you know how things go.
    Last edited by Mirek; 13th January 2019 at 00:09.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  7. Likes: cali (13th January 2019),Jarek Z (13th January 2019),pantealex (13th January 2019),TWRC (13th January 2019)
  8. #175
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Add much more difficult conditions for R5 cars in gravel rallies. WRC2 drivers start after 10-20 WRC cars, which destroy the surface in a big way. In rallies like Turkey/Acropolis/Cyprus the road is destroyed, full of stones, rocks and ruts made by WRC cars, so it is more likely to damage suspension or tyres, which will increase costs. It doesn't look this way in national level rallies.

    Last edited by Jarek Z; 13th January 2019 at 00:48.
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

  9. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Z View Post
    Add much more difficult conditions for R5 cars in gravel rallies. WRC2 drivers start after 10-20 WRC cars, which destroy the surface in a big way. In rallies like Turkey/Acropolis/Cyprus the road is destroyed, full of stones, rocks and ruts made by WRC cars, so it is more likely to damage suspension or tyres, which will increase costs. It doesn't look this way in national level rallies.

    Well it does. Have you followed national rallies in those countries? I have seen national rallies in Finland where the stage are already so ruined that 4WD is almost a must to get across and there is still 50 or so cars to come.

  10. Likes: pantealex (13th January 2019)
  11. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Completely different fuel, i.e. different ECU maps (that's more of a problem for someone who is doing the first WRC event with his own team), likely different tyres, much more spare parts needed (that also means you have much more money in the spare parts), more tyres, more fuel needed for WRC event. Everything has to be prepared several days earlier. Much more paperwork. More difficult to plan part rebuilds/changes as what you could do without a change in national event you often can't do in a WRC event, moreover you have much less time for that. Parts which should survive another national event before change/rebuild may need to be changed/rebuilt already before the event. It's many small differences which make the WRC event logistics way more difficult.

    It's even more difficult because every event is a new territory and you absolutely must test and test a lot. That's not the case of national events where you drive in the same territory which you know and for which you have setups. Also different fuel and tyres need extra testing to develop a setup for them. the new territory also means that to arrange anything will likely take more time and energy than at home where you know how things go.
    This conversation has really side tracked from WRC2/pro.

    I don't know how deep you dig when talking about logistics but, i'm talking about the car/parts/service and needed crew to be at the scene at the needed time.
    You should have needed spares for the WRC event in your national rally service, If you happen to wreck the car already in friday at WRC it might be harder to join back on saturday but if it was a national rally your game would already be over. Can you tell me which respectable team only run the necessary parts in the service truck?
    More paperwork should become as a routine for the teams.

    Fuel in most cases is bought straight from Panta and is there for all the paid crews. = easier for WRC rounds.
    Same goes for tires. You can still choose from Michelin and Pirelli and get the tires straight from them = just bring the wheels.

    Again, ain't we talking about the single national events vs the WRC round. Yes you need to test but you also test for the national event. If you drive whole championship which includes just same kind of roads of course its cheaper to test for those since actually you really don't need to.

    I have no clue about the R5 rent prices but if 100km's is around 20k then WRC round should be 60k + entry fees.

  12. #178
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Essaj View Post
    Well it does. Have you followed national rallies in those countries? I have seen national rallies in Finland where the stage are already so ruined that 4WD is almost a must to get across and there is still 50 or so cars to come.
    No, it doesn't. In most national championships there are no WRC cars at all and the number of R5 cars is between 5-10 (not 20-30), so the road is not so much destroyed. I saw the ruts during WRC Rally Poland in 2009 and they were so huge that I didn't know how those small R2 cars at the end of the start list could get through.
    Last edited by Jarek Z; 13th January 2019 at 01:09.
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

  13. #179
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    But I'm sure every driver who isn't driving in wrc is dreaming of being in the field some day so that's why some drivers are rather driving few wrc2 or jwrc events than erc or nationals. WRC teams don't look for guys over there but mostly wrc2 and jwrc and that is also hard because the field is already pretty occupied with fast and proven drivers. If some of these guys right now will not perform this year or if someone will retire (high unlikely) they will first talk to Paddon, Breen, Ostberg (Tidemand could be also in game). Greensmith didn't think will show much with just one rally. The real chance of stepping up have only Kalle.

  14. #180
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
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    Could we talk about WRC2 2019 now? Go back to topic. Costs I think is more off topic than talking about JK preparing for WRC2 2019.

    I propose new thread: costs in WRC rallying ...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

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