WRC cars 3-5 years from now

[Mirek]

Id still rather watch the old S2000s than the new R5s. The noise of the s2000s made the IRC and from maybe 2009-2011, that was a superb championship that gripped so many people. Better than the WRC to follow and spectate.

The new generation WRC cars are incredible and wonderful to watch. Whatever the FIA decide on the next batch of regulations they can't dilute the sound and spectacle, so I really don't know what is the next step?

The only problem with the current generation is the lack of top line wrc cars on the stages. That's the only criticism

S2000 were actually quite expensive cars. The rules were not so strict so that it was possible to sell for much higher prices than set in the rules. At the peak of their popularity the top S2000 cars cost around 100k Euro more than top R5 today. Add to that the inflation and the real difference is even bigger.

But I liked them very much as well...

[skarderud]

I also think that a WRCar for the future, with some kind of electric/hybrid need to be a bigger car, like focus.
The main argument has to be the need for more space and the security around the electric/hybrid system.


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[mknight]

Mirek while I agree that some sort of hybridization has to happen for multiple reason I am not quite sure electric turbos are the way to go, simply because there is nothing like that in normal cars afaik.

Just adding electric motor for torque and "anti-lag" between shifts and after lift-off while banning ALS but keeping normal turbo would work and is already used on most hypercars.

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The other issue is the cost, right now most seems related to the carbon-fiber aero cost (someone wrote the small off and watersplash dmg Tanak did in Australia cost 200k euro together). Prokop was saying similar things after running the 2017 Fiesta in the team.
How possible is it to introduce some idea of cost cap on parts like in R5? Prbly very hard to control cause you don't need to "sell" the cars for a given price though. Maybe limit what material can be used for them?

Limiting test days to some reasonable number and loopholes for exploiting also seems like a good idea (already getting done now). Maybe only allow pre-event tests together on one location (yes harder to organize etc. but it could be another thing to watch for fans as well).

Another possible area that struck me when reading recent interviews from Ogier and Mikkelsen before that and also what Ogier did before/after Finland....... dampers.
Mikkelsen said they at Hyundai have 200!!!! different dampers to pick from while at VW they had only 40!! (and these were only from one supplier, this year Ogier used different suplier for tarmac and gravel at times). The numbers look quite insane to me in terms of cost tbh, buying so many parts is one thing but the associated testing and setup work needed to pick which ones to use for which conditions is what really has to cost money. Limit number of allowed options?

[Mirek]

Mirek while I agree that some sort of hybridization has to happen for multiple reason I am not quite sure electric turbos are the way to go, simply because there is nothing like that in normal cars afaik

Why is that an issue? ALS isn't in stock cars either. Sequential gearboxes as well and the list can go on for quite some time.

Anyway large majority of people around the stages doesn't know how ALS or electric turbo works or what's the difference between WRC sequential gearbox and their DSG with paddles on the steering wheel...

[Rally Power]

I started this thread in the light of higher and higher costs giving that there are less seats for next year, and who knows what teams can afford in the future. Add environmental pressure from authorities make us think out of the box in this thread.

Maybe the problem is more in the way the promoter is trying to make the series grow, adding more events to an already busy calendar, rather than in current WRC cars.

2017 WRC cars rules are the main reason for WRC revamp, providing crews, teams and fans some of the most exciting seasons ever. WRC cars can be expensive and exclusive but that’s what one should expect to have on the pinnacle series of the sport. Besides, the jokers limitation is helping controlling their cost.

It’d be a nonsense to change WRC cars specs till the end of the planned 2nd cycle (2020-2022) and from 2023 forward we can only hope the FIA won’t try to make any regulation revolution, imposing high tech hybrids or electric cars (they must be smart and learn from WEC failed attempts and WRX current crisis); a mild hydrib system should be enough.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Whatever the regulations are the biggest change required is one that allows privateers to build and run same cars to the regulations as the factory teams in the manner of the old Group 1 to 4 days and the Group N and A days.
One should not have to purchase a factory built car to compete

[Mirek]

Whatever the regulations are the biggest change required is one that allows privateers to build and run same cars to the regulations as the factory teams in the manner of the old Group 1 to 4 days and the Group N and A days.
One should not have to purchase a factory built car to compete

This has been discussed to death. It's the manufacturers themselves who would never allow that to happen. Also the rules and the technical level are now so hugely complex compared to the time of group 1-4 that it's unreal to expect any privateer to homologate his own WRC car. Take into account that a homologation of a 1970' car usually had only few pages while now it's hundreds.

I personally cannot imagine any privateer being able to simulate everything from stress to aerodynamics, to make wind-tunnel tests, to build his own active differential, to run thousands of kilometers of tests using virtually hundreds of different suspension setups etc. etc. Without that he has zero chance to be ever competitive and even simplifying the rules to the bone would not change the massive advantage of manufacturers in their resources.

[mknight]

Why is that an issue? ALS isn't in stock cars either. Sequential gearboxes as well and the list can go on for quite some time.

Anyway large majority of people around the stages doesn't know how ALS or electric turbo works or what's the difference between WRC sequential gearbox and their DSG with paddles on the steering wheel...

Because of marketing.
I do believe that cars need to pretend they are similar to the cars that people buy in everyday life, after all that's often the main point of rally-related marketing (just look at latest Skoda ads), because it's one of the 2 main things that makes rally radically different from Formula 1 where the cars look totally alien. (the second one is that it's run on "normal" roads)

It's similar to the downsizing history. The current 1.6 engines have prbly similar power to the old 2.0 with smaller restrictor. Yet they did not change the rules back to 2.0 for 2017 to increase power, cause marketing-wise very few cars run with 2.0 engines today.

You actually write it yourself. Gearboxes that WRC uses with paddles on steering wheel look similar to standard automatic shifts with paddle-override that just about every car has today... hence the are good for marketing. ALS with red-glowing exhaust is not even close to funcionality to anything on normal cars, hence quite a lot of people including casual fans don't know what it is and it certainly isn't marketed.

Electric engine helping the petrol one is now in quite many cars down to the low-price range, so it would be quite easy to use in advertising. Toyota is clearly the easiest example, but many others have or will soon have similar systems.

[Tarmop]

Umh, formula car is not a car, in terms of that both r5 and wrc are quite authentic to their road versions. About flappy paddle gearshifts...that is mostly associated with formula cars and hypercars...a manu can give his car to be used by lets say...Mr. Clarkson and he instantly gets more for pretty much free. The idea of stock car racing has been tried and is being done right now, it is not suitable and meant to be the crown of the sports.

[Mirek]

Because of marketing.
I do believe that cars need to pretend they are similar to the cars that people buy in everyday life, after all that's often the main point of rally-related marketing (just look at latest Skoda ads), because it's one of the 2 main things that makes rally radically different from Formula 1 where the cars look totally alien. (the second one is that it's run on "normal" roads)

It's similar to the downsizing history. The current 1.6 engines have prbly similar power to the old 2.0 with smaller restrictor. Yet they did not change the rules back to 2.0 for 2017 to increase power, cause marketing-wise very few cars run with 2.0 engines today.

You actually write it yourself. Gearboxes that WRC uses with paddles on steering wheel look similar to standard automatic shifts with paddle-override that just about every car has today... hence the are good for marketing. ALS with red-glowing exhaust is not even close to funcionality to anything on normal cars, hence quite a lot of people including casual fans don't know what it is and it certainly isn't marketed.

Electric engine helping the petrol one is now in quite many cars down to the low-price range, so it would be quite easy to use in advertising. Toyota is clearly the easiest example, but many others have or will soon have similar systems.

The public can recognize that the car runs an electric turbo how? If they can't recognize sequential gearbox from DSG they sure as hell can't recognize electric turbo and normal turbo. Engine volume is clear. That's something what everyone is able to understand but I really don't understand why an electric turbo shall be an issue when You really need to know something about it to know that turbo =/= turbo. For me it's much less alien than current ALS with its very recognizable sound which has nothing to do with any stock car.