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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    Had hamilton driven the redbull in 2010-2013 instead of vettel, he might have been 9 times champion.

    And had vettel switched to mercedes in 2014 he might have been 10 times world champion.

    Its al about luck and being in the right car at the right time.
    It is not as simple as that i don't think. Vettel has been in a marginally faster car the last two seasons and has not increased his title tally. There is more to it than a faster car.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    It is not as simple as that i don't think. Vettel has been in a marginally faster car the last two seasons and has not increased his title tally. There is more to it than a faster car.
    True, but a faster car has a whole lot to do with it.
    "Old roats am jake mit goats."
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    It is not as simple as that i don't think. Vettel has been in a marginally faster car the last two seasons and has not increased his title tally. There is more to it than a faster car.
    I don't believe the ferrari is really faster than the mercedes over the course of a whole year. Hamilton has twice the amount of wins and poles this year than vettel, and vettel is still way ahead of raikkonen.
    So either vettel has become slow recently, or the mercedes still had the edge on the majority of the races.

  4. Likes: journeyman racer (20th November 2018)
  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    True, but a faster car has a whole lot to do with it.
    If that was the case, Vettel should have won the last two drivers title. But a fast car really helps, not necessarily faster. Which is why Redbull have won four races this season.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    I don't believe the ferrari is really faster than the mercedes over the course of a whole year. Hamilton has twice the amount of wins and poles this year than vettel, and vettel is still way ahead of raikkonen.
    So either vettel has become slow recently, or the mercedes still had the edge on the majority of the races.
    You're bang on. But people with their Hamilton glasses on...

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    zako obviously can't put performances in context.
    I absolutely CAN do that. Note the core of my argument. Should I actually repeat it?

    1. Schumacher has been involved in a number of truly despicable cheating incidents, including championship-deciding collisions in 1994 and 1997. He obviously went along with the banned traction control system in 1994.

    2. His team was caught red-handed cheating in 1994. The only reason Benetton was not disqualified in 1994 was because the F1 community was already shocked by the death of Ayerton Senna, and everyone wanted to forget that horrible season. So the team was slapped with only a symbolic fine, and Schumacher was banned from a couple of races.

    3. In 2000-2004, he was paired with Barrichello at Ferrari, the team with the fastest car. Barrichello raced though the 1990s before coming to Ferrari and hasn't impressed anyone. Schumacher basically run unopposed in 2000-2004, while Hamilton each season at Mercedes had to fight with Rosberg or Vettel.

    4. Schumacher made a horrible return in 2010-2012, couldn't even beat Rosberg. We have seen many times drivers take time off and return in a great form (for example Prost in 1993 or Raikkonen in 2012). Schumacher is not on that list.
    Last edited by zako85; 20th November 2018 at 11:51.

  8. Likes: journeyman racer (21st November 2018)
  9. #17
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    I don't agree with everything, but I'll pay that.

    Schumacher from 2000-04 wasn't entirely as straightforward as you made it seem. 2000 was a closer title race than what we've seen in 2017-18. It wasn't just Hakkinen, even Coulthard had a great season and was in the thick of it til the last few races.

    2001. Coulthard was good at the start of year (Had a great win in Brazil). But yeah, this was the start of the Ferrari domination.

    2003 had a good title race with Raikkonen and Montoya, albeit artificially due the qualifying format and points allocation. Otherwise Ferrari would've comprehensively dominated that year as well.

    I'm not sure of the criticism of Barrichello? By then, Ferrari were well invested in Schumacher. Not even Hamilton was going to disrupt the team dynamics. Not much Barrichello could do. He was overdue for a top ride and had to take what he could get.

  10. #18
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    The question should probably be... if you were a team boss.. who would you choose between Hamilton and Schumacher in their prime?

    No disrespect to either but as good as Schumacher was and as much as I dislike Hamilton... I think I'd still choose Hamilton.

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    The question should probably be... if you were a team boss.. who would you choose between Hamilton and Schumacher in their prime?

    No disrespect to either but as good as Schumacher was and as much as I dislike Hamilton... I think I'd still choose Hamilton.
    That's actually a very hard thing to say. I believe that Hamilton is pretty much unbeatable when he's at his best, but he still has off days every now and then. Schumacher, on the other hand, was an extremely hard worker and massively consistent. I think the Shoe was the safest pick, but enough has been said on how difficult it is to compare both.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    I don't believe the ferrari is really faster than the mercedes over the course of a whole year. Hamilton has twice the amount of wins and poles this year than vettel, and vettel is still way ahead of raikkonen.
    So either vettel has become slow recently, or the mercedes still had the edge on the majority of the races.
    Like Lawrence Fishbone said in the matrix; do you want to take the blue pill or the red pill, well Ferrari took the red pill at Singapore chasing the wrong development path which caused their speed advantage to stagnate. At the same time, the slower Mercedes found a solution to their tyre management problem and surged ahead marginally. This is how it is in F1. Ferrari had Mercedes on the ropes and could have taken both titles for the 2018 season as they had the better car really. It did not help that the driving force behind the team passed away which also caused Ferrari to go through a short period of confusion.

    The 2018 titles (driver and Constructors) may have been won by Ferrari under a different circumstances. It was a close and hard fought season which punished the slightest weakness or errors and Ferrari had many. Mercedes were very nervous most of the season.

    Mercedes looked dominant because Hamilton turned on his magic and took the Mercedes to heights not thought possible by the twitchy 2018 Mercedes car.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 19th December 2018 at 10:01.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

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