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  1. #51
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Plus, is Kimi leaving a way to ease pressure on Seb? I am sure that the Kimster could challenge him if he was given the chance.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

  2. Likes: Mia 01 (25th October 2018),truefan72 (24th October 2018)
  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by COD View Post
    Rosberg had allready raced for the team alongside Shumi for several seasons before Hamilton came in. Not exactly the same startingpoint for Bottas
    Fair point
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  4. #53
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    Max has spoken about this in a recent interview , saying a driver is under acute pressure , especially when he isn't , and knows he isn't , in the best car .
    He'll try a late dive bomb , if it's the only way , and can look a little wild at times , but it's a factor of how he perceives his chances at the time , given his equipment .

    Max is still seen as a wild one , but his car is better this year and so , he is seen as "settling down" .

    This year , Seb and the reds were doing pretty well against a team who had dominated for a number of years , so the pressure of doing so well , and suddenly losing their top man at the half way point had it's effect .

    One jink in the armour , and all of Italy is all over you , especially if the dream of the titles was seen to be real .
    And , it was .
    So , more mistakes came quickly afterward .

    Call it "red mist" or anything else , but it's pretty much the same for all of them .
    Except maybe Kimi , who doesn't seem to get too excited during the race except when his engineer talks too much , or too little , or unclearly .

  5. Likes: journeyman racer (26th October 2018),Mia 01 (25th October 2018),N. Jones (24th October 2018)
  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by COD View Post
    Rosberg had allready raced for the team alongside Shumi for several seasons before Hamilton came in. Not exactly the same startingpoint for Bottas
    One would expect at this stage for Bottas to be closer than he has been to Hamilton. He has had some bad luck on the way in Baku and Russia definitely should have been his race but, other than that, itís hard to pick a race where he has been really outstanding. And I still think Hamiltom would have kept Vettel behind him in Silverstone. Heís an okay number two, but I donít think heíd be at Mercedes long term. Iím surprised he had been resigned for next year. If I were the team, Iíd put Ocon in his place, which I suspect they may well do for 2020.

  7. Likes: truefan72 (25th October 2018)
  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jones View Post
    This was one thing journos always mentioned - during Vettel's four straight titles at Red Bull he was great because he was almost always at the front, no overtaking necessary. When he had to fight for a position his race craft was suspect. I felt that once he join Ferrari he was forced to fight for positions and has gotten better but maybe, just maybe, putting pressure on him is a sure way of dealing with his challenge over the season.
    He has been prone to pressure under mistakes many times. But I think this is different. Thereís the usual mixture of him not taking responsibility for incidents which are his fault and thus he never learns from them. And then there is the leading Ferrari element. That is an extra different kind of pressure in itself. Marchionne used to be getting involved in engineering meetings, something that would have never happened in Lucaís time. Seb as a 4 time WDC was expected to win this year with the car he was provided and he hasnít.

    I think Seb has honed his race craft under the last number of years and can fight for positions now but other basic areas of his game appear to have suffered and I think thatís mainly mental issues.

  9. Likes: N. Jones (25th October 2018)
  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    One would expect at this stage for Bottas to be closer than he has been to Hamilton. He has had some bad luck on the way in Baku and Russia definitely should have been his race but, other than that, it’s hard to pick a race where he has been really outstanding. And I still think Hamiltom would have kept Vettel behind him in Silverstone. He’s an okay number two, but I don’t think he’d be at Mercedes long term. I’m surprised he had been resigned for next year. If I were the team, I’d put Ocon in his place, which I suspect they may well do for 2020.
    Darn right, l thought Mercedes would put Wehrlein or Ocon in the other seat for the 2019 season but didn't. I suspect Bottas is too close to Woolf for anything other outcome to occur. Somehow, l don't think Ocon would get a chance in 2020. If Mercedes has their eyes on the long game, l think they would be looking to George Russell to fill that seat. Unfortunately Ocon has missed the boat. Well, unless he can keep his F1 career alive until Hamilton retires, then he may get a chance.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 25th October 2018 at 19:32.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  11. #57
    Senior Member journeyman racer's Avatar
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    If Bottas performed to the level of expectation of those critical of him, then it'd just mean team orders gets applied more often (If it hasn't already behind closed doors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Max has spoken about this in a recent interview , saying a driver is under acute pressure , especially when he isn't , and knows he isn't , in the best car .
    He'll try a late dive bomb , if it's the only way , and can look a little wild at times , but it's a factor of how he perceives his chances at the time , given his equipment .

    Max is still seen as a wild one , but his car is better this year and so , he is seen as "settling down" .

    This year , Seb and the reds were doing pretty well against a team who had dominated for a number of years , so the pressure of doing so well , and suddenly losing their top man at the half way point had it's effect .

    One jink in the armour , and all of Italy is all over you , especially if the dream of the titles was seen to be real .
    And , it was .
    So , more mistakes came quickly afterward .

    Call it "red mist" or anything else , but it's pretty much the same for all of them .
    Except maybe Kimi , who doesn't seem to get too excited during the race except when his engineer talks too much , or too little , or unclearly .
    Fascinating insight. It kind of explains the fluctuation of form in the current generation of drivers, particularly of those seen as "special". Hamilton's a demon in the best car with no pressure, good but unremarkable when not driving the best car in the 6 years between having the best car. Vettel wins 4 straight championships in the best car, gets flogged by Ricciardo in 14 along with 0 wins in 16. Verstappen effectively now admits he needs the best car to drive races at a optimal level.

  12. #58
    Senior Member journeyman racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    You shouldn't need clout in a team if its really a team. If its every man for himself then its not a team. Bottas' role is to back up Hamilton for wins when Hamilton has a problem and to gather constructors points toward the season title. He hasn't done such a great job.
    MB are going to win the wcc. Bottas is expendable. You always nned clout in a professional environment. What Bottas has to do to get it is not clear.

  13. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    MB are going to win the wcc. Bottas is expendable. You always nned clout in a professional environment. What Bottas has to do to get it is not clear.
    Clout comes from several places. Money, connections, etc. But mostly it comes from being really, really good at what you do, making you a valuable commodity.
    "Old roats am jake mit goats."
    -- Smokey Stover

  14. #60
    Senior Member journeyman racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    Clout comes from several places. Money, connections, etc. But mostly it comes from being really, really good at what you do, making you a valuable commodity.
    What is your point then?

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