Page 260 of 337 FirstFirst ... 160210250258259260261262270310 ... LastLast
Results 2,591 to 2,600 of 3362
  1. #2591
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    1,549
    Like
    125
    Liked 711 Times in 335 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    Kim V was partner to Emil B as well. Not good for Emil joining those "forces".
    I remembered reading that Kruuda also was under Vatanen for some time.
    Never stop dreaming because one day it might happen.

  2. Likes: pantealex (17th July 2019)
  3. #2592
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,138
    Like
    917
    Liked 1,595 Times in 668 Posts
    I wonder what happened to V&V Sport Management, the agency that was/is run by Atte Varsta and Kim Vatanen? They seemed to be on a roll some years ago, but according to their website the current roster includes two drivers, Aki Sahila and Max Vatanen. Neither one has been too active this year (Vatanen has no starts at all, Sahila one in a local Finnish event). In addition to Ogier, their CV includes Breen, Paddon, Bergqvist, Sirmacis and Ketomaa. Maybe it's better not to assume anything, but it doesn't look too good that all of these relationships have ended.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  4. Likes: pantealex (17th July 2019),Rallyper (17th July 2019)
  5. #2593
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,138
    Like
    917
    Liked 1,595 Times in 668 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
    Still waiting for you to name a WRC manager with better one...
    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    20 years without title while managing 4 drivers (5 if you count Suninen) during that period, counts as less than optimal record to me.
    No-one said he's perfect. Just that based on his track record, he's clearly the best in the business. Feel free to give other names to that competition but so far we haven't seen any...

    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Burns was signed for Subaru in 2004. If he did drive I am not sure if Hirvonen would even drive full season with them but due to Burns not being able to drive, Hirvonen got to drive full season as n2.
    That season Subaru was prbly the fastest car overall (on gravel it was without a doubt) with Solberg winning 94 stages.... Hirvonen won 2 and his best results were two 4th places. While notably C. McRae was sitting out without a contract.
    Ofcourse Burns' tragic illness was the reason there was a seat available at Subaru in the first place, but at the end of the day it had quite little to do with Hirvonen or especially Jouhki's resume. The McRae reference was brilliant though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Jouhki got famous for it in rally in a bad way... with Hirvonen.
    Yep, with a guy who ended up collecting six championship medals. Hard to get worse than that.

    Over and out.
    Last edited by Allez Andruet; 17th July 2019 at 19:18.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  6. Likes: pantealex (17th July 2019)
  7. #2594
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    7,891
    Like
    3,444
    Liked 6,795 Times in 2,844 Posts
    Last edited by EstWRC; 18th July 2019 at 07:34.
    Ott Tänak - Martin Järveoja
    World Rally Champions 2019

  8. #2595
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,150
    Like
    246
    Liked 1,808 Times in 998 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EstWRC View Post
    To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

    Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

    1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

    2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

    ---------------
    EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

    Mexico 2019
    "raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
    Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
    Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
    Lappi 7 = 1 +6
    Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

    How it went:
    Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
    Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
    Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
    Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

    Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

    ---------
    Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.
    Last edited by mknight; 18th July 2019 at 10:41.

  9. Likes: pantealex (18th July 2019)
  10. #2596
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sleezattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,332
    Like
    731
    Liked 553 Times in 291 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    And how's that affecting his resume?

    Btw, there's always a sense of humor in his so-called arrogance.

    Maybe the Englishman doesn't understand Rule number One when a Finn speaks: (one of you guys told me this some years ago...)
    " A Finn is never 100% serious, and a Finn is never 100% joking."

    Maybe it might be good to change your screen name to something that sounds just a little more Finn than that strange name you have so Englishman understands better
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  11. Likes: pantealex (19th July 2019)
  12. #2597
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sleezattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,332
    Like
    731
    Liked 553 Times in 291 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

    Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

    1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

    2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

    ---------------
    EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

    Mexico 2019
    "raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
    Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
    Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
    Lappi 7 = 1 +6
    Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

    How it went:
    Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
    Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
    Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
    Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

    Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

    ---------
    Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  13. #2598
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,150
    Like
    246
    Liked 1,808 Times in 998 Posts
    TLDR my response to the linked rating:


  14. #2599
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    7,891
    Like
    3,444
    Liked 6,795 Times in 2,844 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

    Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

    1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

    2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

    ---------------
    EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

    Mexico 2019
    "raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
    Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
    Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
    Lappi 7 = 1 +6
    Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

    How it went:
    Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
    Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
    Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
    Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

    Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

    ---------
    Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.
    as it really bothers you, you can write to him and make suggestions https://twitter.com/PushingPace
    Ott Tänak - Martin Järveoja
    World Rally Champions 2019

  15. #2600
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    791
    Like
    0
    Liked 292 Times in 179 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

    Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

    1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

    2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

    ---------------
    EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

    Mexico 2019
    "raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
    Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
    Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
    Lappi 7 = 1 +6
    Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

    How it went:
    Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
    Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
    Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
    Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

    Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

    ---------
    Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.
    buuuurrrggghlllllaaaaaaaaaaagghhhhhhhhh.......

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •