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  1. #991
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    And what would guarantee, that there would be more? I`m more than certain, that the same names would be in the same teams and not addition to the likes of Huttunen, Rovanperä etc...they would have the chance to pay for their services or go private but like we know, a factory car is in constant development, be it WRC2 or WRC. A winning car today could be the last tomorrow. Would the likes of MG and VW take part as a factory team, is another question, but still, probably no, because of the first part- constant development and salaries are costly enough. Toyota does it with 100mil, M-Sport does it with how much money? Fiesta WRC is/was around 600k-700 eur i believe and C3 WRC was around 1 mil.?

  2. #992
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    Again VW was quite loud about whole EV thing in WRC, despite that they even not competing. I say that they don't have the right to say anything until they will be in again for a full seasons.

    My opinion is that if whole thing would go in R5 direction than it is possible of new manufacturers coming since it would be a lot cheaper than it is now. Now you have Skoda, VW, Hyundai, Ford, Citroen with up to date cars. And I'm sure some would join that squad - like Toyota, Proton, Peugeot, maybe even Opel, Mitsubishi. Maybe some chinese companies.

  3. #993
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    Would you care to elaborate, how much cheaper it would be to have everything like it is now, apart from cars ofc, 4 teams, 10 (12) factory cars driving around the world for the titles? And would, lets say... Skoda take part in that case from all the 14 rounds and would they use their current lineup, when we have 2 unemployed/benched rallywinners and a podium contender from the main class? And lets not talk about privateers in a 208 against the might of 2019 factory Fabia piloted by Ogier for example.
    Last edited by Tarmop; 28th December 2018 at 14:37.

  4. #994
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmop View Post
    And what would guarantee, that there would be more? I`m more than certain, that the same names would be in the same teams and not addition to the likes of Huttunen, Rovanperä etc...they would have the chance to pay for their services or go private but like we know, a factory car is in constant development, be it WRC2 or WRC. A winning car today could be the last tomorrow. Would the likes of MG and VW take part as a factory team, is another question, but still, probably no, because of the first part- constant development and salaries are costly enough. Toyota does it with 100mil, M-Sport does it with how much money? Fiesta WRC is/was around 600k-700 eur i believe and C3 WRC was around 1 mil.?
    Come on, a 300k difference is 50% more; is the C3 made of gold?

    On the rest you, and many others to be fair, are spot on about current WRC cars/regs: they’re exclusive once it’s the top rally formula of the top rally series. Steping down to a less expensive class could grant a larger winning pack for a couple of years, but after that we probably would have only 2 or 3 manus and a handful of drivers with real chances, like most of the time.

    Obviously those fearing WRC current costs have a point, but the truth is that the sport can’t also afford to make new rules and bin state of the art cars every 3 years. Like sniper said, let’s enjoy the most of this fantastic WRC era, hoping it won’t end too briefly.

    P.S.: In a couple of hours, Gryazin will be Live on YT announcing next year program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl4Fyn44iMU
    Rally addict since 1982

  5. #995
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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  7. #996
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    The good thing in making R5 as the main class would be that there are a decent amount of rather equal cars, and no one has bothered to put ridiculous amounts of money into them, so even for newcomer manufacturers it might be a bit easier to catch. But as soon as it was made the main class, someone would be willing to put ridiculous amounts of money into them. And then they wouldn't be so cheap anymore. Of course, R5 has more limiting regulations, so the minimum cost of running a car might be a bit less, and the benefit from extra millions wouldn't be so big. But nevertheless, a main class that costs the same amount as R5 now just can't happen.

    The idea that motorsport is next to the devil now, but making a few top cars electric would make it a saint is absolutely ridiculous. Of course, there are a lots of dumb people deciding about their own and others' money, so as a PR stunt it might be worth it. A huge majority of emissions from global motorsport comes from moving the circus from one place to another. And then there is the local low level motorsport, which won't be electric any time soon. These combined, the benefit of a few electric cars disappears like a fart into Sahara.

  8. #997
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    The Breen update is so sad. The guy loves rally so much. Hope he gets something sorted soon. The WRC needs characters like him.

    Nice mention for his co-driver too:

    @Craig_Breen
    Something else I needed to add.. My partner in crime @scottmartinat is moving on to pastures new next year, and I would just like to thank him from the bottom of my heart for not only being ultra professional, one of the best friends a man could ask for..
    Last edited by Fast Eddie WRC; 28th December 2018 at 16:19.
    #M-SPORTER

  9. Likes: WRC1 (28th December 2018),WUff1 (28th December 2018)
  10. #998
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
    My opinion is that if whole thing would go in R5 direction than it is possible of new manufacturers coming since it would be a lot cheaper than it is now. Now you have Skoda, VW, Hyundai, Ford, Citroen with up to date cars. And I'm sure some would join that squad - like Toyota, Proton, Peugeot, maybe even Opel, Mitsubishi. Maybe some chinese companies.
    The whole R5 class would get much more expensive for all those hundreds of privateers if WRC teams start to use R5. Keep it as it is for good, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Googol View Post
    The good thing in making R5 as the main class would be that there are a decent amount of rather equal cars, and no one has bothered to put ridiculous amounts of money into them, so even for newcomer manufacturers it might be a bit easier to catch. But as soon as it was made the main class, someone would be willing to put ridiculous amounts of money into them. And then they wouldn't be so cheap anymore. Of course, R5 has more limiting regulations, so the minimum cost of running a car might be a bit less, and the benefit from extra millions wouldn't be so big. But nevertheless, a main class that costs the same amount as R5 now just can't happen.

    The idea that motorsport is next to the devil now, but making a few top cars electric would make it a saint is absolutely ridiculous. Of course, there are a lots of dumb people deciding about their own and others' money, so as a PR stunt it might be worth it. A huge majority of emissions from global motorsport comes from moving the circus from one place to another. And then there is the local low level motorsport, which won't be electric any time soon. These combined, the benefit of a few electric cars disappears like a fart into Sahara.
    Basically agree except I don't believe that making R5 more expensive for all privateers is worth making them the top class.

    I personally don't believe a top level of motorsport can be made cheap no matter the rules. The teams will alwas spend how much is worth the title - and that's the more the more audience is watching, i.e. with more expensive and more spectacular cars the teams can spend more than with boring cars nobody really likes to watch (i.e. British championship few years back).
    Last edited by Mirek; 28th December 2018 at 16:46.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  11. #999
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong: the R5 cars aren't as durable as the WRC cars thanks to cheaper parts being used. Therefore, if we sat down Ogier, Neuville, Tänak et al in R5's with a mission to go for the title, we would see a lot more technical retirements and/or careful driving. We would also see more punctures due to different types of tyres being used. A major accident in an R5 car could result in worse injuries than the same in a WRC car with more width and side padding.

  12. #1000
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Works run R5 cars are pretty reliable. Usually it's the privateers who has the reliability issues because they don't have same service options as he works teams do. Generally the R5 would be likely somewhat less reliable but not that much.

    For the record Kopecký never ever retired with technical problem with R5 car no mater where - in four years and eight different championships. That must be an all time record for the sport and it's not yet broken.

    You can use WRC ytres on R5 cars. No problem with that from technical point of view. You would only a bit limit the performance by using heavy tyres.

    In case of side impact the current WRC cars are safer but arguably most of their accidents also happen in higher speed therefore it's sort of unknown. I think that nobody including FIA is able to say if current WRC cars or R5 cars are generally safer.
    Last edited by Mirek; 28th December 2018 at 17:14.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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