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  1. #1961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmop View Post
    The more WRCs are used, the better. Has been like that all the time one way or the other.
    No to both.
    - hasn't been like this for last 3-4 years
    - it can potentially result in national rallies dominated by 2-3 drivers who can afford the cars instead of the large armies of R5 that are there now

  2. #1962
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    Well, all those Monza shows, GFOS, with their own drivers, 3 sold cars, out of which 2 have also taken part in show events and nationals . M-Sport still has the largest number of"out of the series starts" in this generation. And they will keep it, probably.

    *There aren`t so many R5s like some people tend to think, basing their opinions on their regions, but the world is bigger.
    *New WRC can be succesfully beaten by a R5, (Gross vs O. Solberg, Fiesta 17 vs Polo R5).
    *Those countries that allow them now, mostly allow them outside of the championship so again, no harm there..
    *Great for fans who can`t allow experiencing a WRC round themselves.
    Last edited by Tarmop; 13th May 2019 at 19:12.

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  4. #1963
    Senior Member Andre Oliveira's Avatar
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    One thing is car other is car + official driver.

    M-Sport official drivers don't run.

  5. #1964
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmop View Post
    *New WRC can be succesfully beaten by a R5, (Gross vs O. Solberg, Fiesta 17 vs Polo R5).
    Bottas was fifth in Arctic Rally

    EDIT: I remembered wrong Katsuta in Itäralli. He won that just with a slight margin, but was first on the road in snowy conditions.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 14th May 2019 at 07:44.

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  7. #1965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira View Post
    One thing is car other is car + official driver.

    M-Sport official drivers don't run.
    On show events, they do/did. Ostberg also falls in that category.

  8. #1966
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    the whole idea (of allowing latest gen factory cars in local rallies) is a problem.
    I can't help but quote myself from some month ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
    What I somewhat fail to understand here is that it's not like we're getting these market disruptors on each national championship. The 2017 machinery is anyway so expensive and so restricted for bunch of reasons, that it just won't happen. Instead, we're treated with likes of Neuville and Loeb doing the odd outing here and there, giving the events more exposure and bringing more fans than they'd normally draw. I.e. no-one's definitely losing here.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

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  10. #1967
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Obviously Hyundai ("just") started to exploit this big time this year (Loeb 2 rallies, Neuville and Mikkelsen 1). I don't like it. Neither do I like Toyota's "exploiting".
    They were only now allowed to enter the cars to national rallies and France and Italy. Also the Ypres WRC parallel event was created for this year.

    Although, Neuville already started Autoglym rally in Finland 2017.

    Like I've said earlier, I see this as a positive thing, a chance for people to see WRC cars and drivers when the series doesn't run an event in their country (which is partially true in the case of Italy and France when their WRC rallies are hosted on islands). Just as long as they're kept away from the championship points, there's no harm done.

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  12. #1968
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    Are you guys suggesting an R5 car is not slower than WRC17 car?
    Cause it almost sounds like that. Sure a better driver in R5 can beat worse one in WRC. Heck in right conditions even "worse" driver can beat WRC in R5 (lately Sweden powerstage first run with Hutunen, Kopecky numerous times on SSS on tarmac).

    That doesn't change the fact that given similar drivers and normal circumstances WRC driver easily wins. If both cars are allowed then the one with more money wins.

    Running them outside normal national classification is good and fixes this issue.

    Doesn't fix the other issue of using this as "exploit" to circumvent testing rules.
    This in turn leads to inceased cost by manufacturers. Listening to the teams, testing is by far the most effective use of money when it comes to improving performance. Though it has its limitations as C3 showed.
    We already have half the teams in WRC running only 2 cars regularly. Surely we don't want further cost increase? Say Hyundai and Toyota that have money use them on additional testing (each with their own exploit) . Citroen to stay competetive for drivers title abandons 3rd car. But we should be happy cause we see a WRC car with manu driver on some national rally with very limited media coverage and no competition? (at least in Estonia there will be competition)
    ------


    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    ... (which is partially true in the case of Italy and France when their WRC rallies are hosted on islands).
    As you are well aware of, all the stages and SD of Rally Monte Carlo are in France, so this was a particularly terrible example.

  13. #1969
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    Yup, with those not-so talented drivers, there is almost a chance for everyone. They will never dominate the scenery anyway and take part of it without earning points, mostly. Many nationals can say also that those few R5 are too expensive and fast for guys with old N`s. Next there is a significant difference between old R5s vs new R5s or evolutions, we already have that with the evo vs non-evo versions, not to mention the Polo r5. And in the end...what are local championships with people competing with R5s made from? Usually just wealthy people enjoying themselves, ofc they want to win etcetc, but theirs or nobody else`s life quality suffers from it...and the ones with real talent shine out even brighter.

    The cars are there so let them be used like cars should be used like: driven.
    Last edited by Tarmop; 14th May 2019 at 16:33.

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  15. #1970
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    Jari Huttunen
    ‏ @HuttunenRacing
    2 min2 minuuttia sitten

    Next step: Finnish Rally Championship Riihimäki Ralli on 25th of May with Hyundai i20 WRC. “The feeling is very good and we are trying to get more mileage and build confidence in this rally.” #rally

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