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  1. #31
    Senior Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Pity we cant have 4WD Audi S1 vs Focus RS vs Golf R instead of ancient Evos...
    DSC_4709 by Ben, on Flickr

    AP4 has one out of three at least!



    all three if Polo and Fiesta will do instead of Golf and Focus. Plus Mazda, Toyota, Holden, Hyundai etc... not production cars though.

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  3. #32
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    Why doesn´t Adam fit in your arguments for stock cars? You more look at Adam as made special for rallying? Then you know maybe inside info from Opel company board?
    Adam R2 has very very little common with the stock Adam. Not much more than the bodyshell. You can't even buy Adam with 1.6 engine. Nothing like that ever existed.
    Last edited by Mirek; 7th August 2018 at 13:01.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Adam R2 has very very little common with the stock Adam. Not much more than the bodyshell. You can't even buy Adam with 1.6 engine. Nothing like that ever existed.
    So what about the Adam Cup car?
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  5. #34
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    So what about the Adam Cup car?
    Well... yes, again an engine which You can't buy in stock car but it's fully stock engine on the other hand. Honestly the Cup car is a perfect entry car but without the work done for R2 it would likely not exist. So why not to use the same formula for stock cars which already have suitable engine?
    Last edited by Mirek; 7th August 2018 at 14:43.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    I think that there is a lot of stock cars with their potential for use in rallying completely ignored (and which are moreover produced by traditional rally-affiliated manufacturers). I mean mainly a whole army of hothatches which only need rules to make them eligible. Is writting a rulebook for them really harder than to convince manufacturers to build special cars like Adam R2 which has very little common with the stock product? Isn't it easier to take a stock hot hatch and with a rather small effort make it a sort of gr.N rallycar?

    Of course I do rememeber the fail of Renault with Megane RS but that was only because the car was put in the same class as the 4WD cars. Wouldn't it be better if it was racing against Golf GTI or Civic Type-R?

    Some of You may say that I'm going against my own arguments from the past when I was reffering about a potential new gr.A as about a nonsense. I still do. The key is that here I don't mean a top class in the sport. In the lower classes there shall be a natural will to use everything what is freely available on the market.
    I like the way you're thinking; possibly a 'Hot Hatch' class?? Mainly FWD cars - Megane RS, Golf GTi, i30N, Focus ST, etc And instead of trying to beat each other with fastest lap times on the Nurburgring - we get a proper competition on the stages.

    So you'd have WRC1, WRC2, WRC-HH/FWD for example....
    WRC: On the long way to Recovery............
    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

  7. #36
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    I don't think that this could be that interesting for WRC events. More for national or regional events (and mostly only for asphalt countries) because these cars exist on the market and are affordable. IMO there is also no need for new classes. They can be accommodated in R3 class which is dead anyway.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  8. #37
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    I agree. But the example of non stock car as for Adam was not bthe best.

    For regional event a cup from any manufacturer would boost. For example the Suzuki Swift. However gearbox should always be at least dogboxquality.
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  9. #38
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    I agree. But the example of non stock car as for Adam was not bthe best.
    Adam Cup is non-FIA car so it's rather irrelevant in regard to discussion about FIA rules. It was created as a side-project along the R2 which is an FIA car, which is good but an expensive car and which has near nothing common with the stock car and which is using an outdated engine (in terms of current Opel's portfolio and marketing trends). The point was a question why did Opel need to build a special car even for lower classes when it had Corsa OPC or Astra OPC on sale?
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  10. #39
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd View Post
    Short sighted but typical FIA. Meddle around the edges but do nothing about the core.
    Spot on. Gr.R cars are all developed by the manus or their official tuners. We know there’s usually a limited number of manus involved in rally and most of them are mainly interested on overall wins. That’s why we have almost the same number of WRC and R5 models homologated than all R1, R2 and R3 cars combined. Besides, manus built rally cars are always expensive, which makes even harder for privateers to get in.

    The only way to open the sport to a wider range of brands and models is to have private tuners back, through a more liberal regulation for national and international use, just like it was done with AP4 in the FIA Asia Pacific series or Maxi Rally on FIA Codasur.

    Probably that was R4 global aim, but having a single supplier for the class was a terrible idea. The FIA can still make R4 work if they end Oreca’s monopoly and allow each nation major tuners to locally build similar cars under a common R4 regulation; the same could be easily done for a new 2WD class and both would be complementary to current R5 and WRC top categories.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  12. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiWRCfan View Post
    Japanese website gives potential order of 2019 Calendar as follows.
    MC SWE MEX CHI ARG POR ITA FIN TUR GER AUS ESP JAP WAL
    link to article https://www.as-web.jp/rally/397349?all
    I would view it as just rumor until we see something official
    Thanks for the link to this interesting article. Even if it is speculation, I believe it is close to reality and likely based on conversations with the Rally Japan promoter. Last week, I was told unofficially that 2019 Rally Japan is on. Now, it looks like its date has been decided, too (start of November written in body of calendar, but end of November written in 'draft' calendar at the end of the article?). The suggested calendar also slots Chile in at end of April and the article says that there is a strong possibility that not only Corsica, but also Turkey and Germany will be dropped for 2019!
    Last edited by Rally Hokkaido; 8th August 2018 at 06:17. Reason: re-read the article!
    "Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." Steve McQueen

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