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  1. #981
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    Wasn`t it the opposite with WRX? Manuf. wanting to introduce new technologies and not interested in internal combustion anymore? And WEC, well, VAG was really succesful, when pulling out, so one could say, that with the current regulations, they took almost everything they could. Also they are still a present in GTE. They also did pull out of other series`. There were also talks this year from Peugeot, that they are planning a return when new rules are introduced. Cost is an issue and always will be, but stagnation or worse, going back, isn`t a solution also.
    Last edited by Tarmop; 27th December 2018 at 22:26.

  2. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    The WRX is failing after the sudden annoucement of a switch to EV’s, just like Le Mans main category has turned into a joke (3 of 4 manus have pull out) due to the extreme costs of higth tec hybrid systems.

    We’re still in WRC new rules first cycle (2017-19) and even if some insist the second cycle should be shortened (taking one year from the planned 2020-22), there’s no need to rush into EV’s or hybrids; what mostly mater is to avoid a disruption in the series that could make fans, manus and teams running off.

    Btw, let’s not take the eco-political correctness too seriously; Nascar is probably one of the most pollutant motorsport series in the world, yet it’s by far the most popular one and an amazing sponsor’s magnet.

    1. WRX sequence of events:
    a) FIA delays EVs from 2020 to 2021, quite some time after they were announced for 2020
    b) Audi then Peugeot withdraw (Ford left a year before), after that VW leaves too cause there is nobody to fight

    (so basically what Tarmop says, manus left cause the rules were not changing)

    2. WRC rules:
    Originally the rules were 2017-2019 and the extension was optional 2 years, which seems to have changed to 3. Keeping these rules for "just a few years" is imo part of the reason why Skoda didn't join. Note that this came AFTER VW leadership said that WRC needs hybrids or EVs. (Skoda is owned by VW as most know)

    3. Nascar is basically all about US, WRC is very much Europe-centered. (teams (and rules banning some testing outside of europe), rallies, fans)
    Last edited by mknight; 27th December 2018 at 22:33.

  3. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Nascar is probably one of the most pollutant motorsport series in the world
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiNR3kTq_pc
    There are also [monster] trucks and until they've been banned, WRC is nothing. And what about planes and fighter aircrafts or even spaceplanes. Oops, not a sport anymore...

  4. #984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmop View Post
    Wasn`t it the opposite with WRX? Manuf. wanting to introduce new technologies and not interested in internal combustion anymore? And WEC, well, VAG was really succesful, when pulling out, so one could say, that with the current regulations, they took almost everything they could. Also they are still a present in GTE. They also did pull out of other series`. There were also talks this year from Peugeot, that they are planning a return when new rules are introduced. Cost is an issue and always will be, but stagnation or worse, going back, isn`t a solution also.
    Untill VW and Peugeot get in on a full scale, the WRX was doing fine; the problems came from those 2 wanting a full switch to EVís, which no one else supported. After Audi and, mainly, Porsche pull out from Le Mans, the organizers realize they needed a less ambitious regulation, with more simple and less expensive hybrid cars, as theyíve now announced.

    Honestly, I canít see how the WRC is stagnating when weíre only in the 3rd year of one of the most fantastic rally eras; this urgent need for discussing the future regs is a total nonsense, just like all the allegedly Eco BS were facing in our lives.
    Rally addict since 1982

  5. #985
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    Honestly, I canít see how the WRC is stagnating when weíre only in the 3rd year of one of the most fantastic rally eras; this urgent need for discussing the future regs is a total nonsense, just like all the allegedly Eco BS were facing in our lives.[/QUOTE]

    There are two ways to answer this:

    Firstly, from a TV / talkability / three drivers heading into the final round as potential champions point-of-view, 2018 was a good year. You can watch WRC live and because they basically cover the top ten drivers then go to the next stage, where driver number one is about to start, itís non stop excitement.

    But secondly, watching from stage side (which many of us absolutely love to do), we only get to see 10-12 cars and this is shit.
    There are simply not enough teams and privateers who want to run the current cars.

    I guess it comes down to what the promoters and FIA want; good TV or good entertainment for those watching stage side.

    Iíve said it recently, the sport is on a knife-edge in terms of participants, it has been for a few years and it probably will be unless the manufacturers all see more value in terms of its exposure. Thatís why itís important to plan ahead and discuss the future regs and it needs to happen sooner than later.

  6. #986
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    1. WRX sequence of events:
    a) FIA delays EVs from 2020 to 2021, quite some time after they were announced for 2020
    b) Audi then Peugeot withdraw (Ford left a year before), after that VW leaves too cause there is nobody to fight

    (so basically what Tarmop says, manus left cause the rules were not changing)

    2. WRC rules:
    Originally the rules were 2017-2019 and the extension was optional 2 years, which seems to have changed to 3. Keeping these rules for "just a few years" is imo part of the reason why Skoda didn't join. Note that this came AFTER VW leadership said that WRC needs hybrids or EVs. (Skoda is owned by VW as most know)

    3. Nascar is basically all about US, WRC is very much Europe-centered. (teams (and rules banning some testing outside of europe), rallies, fans)
    Youíre wrong:

    1. a)b) The delay was due to not having the mandatory 4 manus entries for the 2020 eWRX in August 2018, as only VW and Peugeot (not Audi) showed their interest. Meanwhile Audi left and Peugeot didnít wait for the new 2021 entry deadline (March 2019, with a reduced 3 manus requirement).

    2. The rules were always about two 3 years cycles (thatís why Toyota anouced their commitement till the end of 2022). This year, some voices were heard (like VWís Smeets) asking for shorteneing the 2nd cycle and have EVís new rules appliyed at 2022 beginning.

    3. Nascar is also popular in Canada, Mexico, Central and South America and even in some Asian countries.
    Rally addict since 1982

  7. #987
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    When FP pulledout last year, they said they are all for the EV rx, just needs to be more specific and they don't see a point wasting money atm. There were talks about 7? potential interested teams i think. I'm a petrolhead and always will be, but motorsport, especially factory-motorsport has to move together with current roadcars. Fine-tuning a turbo engineis nice, but for a manuf. (stopping diesel engines in roadcars, promising full EV in some years ) point of view unfortunately not.

  8. #988
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    there's no fame about the sport. they should let r5 to be top class (with the same price as now) and let the entry list be more then 100 cars on every rally. let the national crews compete. what to say when the top car can drive about 10 crews. who want to look that?! anyone can play football/soccer and that's why it is so popular. look at tour de france/giro/ etc, we have more then 100 riders with the same equipment but they don't have the abilities for winning. there's no way the sport will be big in medias and attractive for huge crowds and manufacturers again with four drivers that can win and every season the same champ. and this four guys are likable in medias like grandma's a$$. we are all here hard core fans. and manufacturers wnat medias around the sport.

  9. Likes: Sulland (28th December 2018)
  10. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Btw, let’s not take the eco-political correctness too seriously; Nascar is probably one of the most pollutant motorsport series in the world, yet it’s by far the most popular one and an amazing sponsor’s magnet.
    NASCAR has actually been suffering in many respects in recent years, its decline has been widely publicised. Here's one article: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sp...221945860.html Admittedly its problems aren't 'eco-political correctness' because many Americans don't seem to worry themselves about or believe in such issues, but it's incorrect to suggest that it's doing overly well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barreis View Post
    there's no fame about the sport. they should let r5 to be top class (with the same price as now) and let the entry list be more then 100 cars on every rally. let the national crews compete. what to say when the top car can drive about 10 crews. who want to look that?! anyone can play football/soccer and that's why it is so popular. look at tour de france/giro/ etc, we have more then 100 riders with the same equipment but they don't have the abilities for winning. there's no way the sport will be big in medias and attractive for huge crowds and manufacturers again with four drivers that can win and every season the same champ. and this four guys are likable in medias like grandma's a$$. we are all here hard core fans. and manufacturers wnat medias around the sport.
    I imagine most of the current WRC crews would still make up the regular top ten finishers on any given WRC rally anyway. We'd probably have the same top three to five drivers as we have now in contention for wins, but just driving slower, less spectacular R5 cars... Great. And they'd only show the top 15 cars anyway, so the 80+ also-rans would get no more interest/coverage than now for their €/$/£250K+ budgets. WRC2, where all R5 comers are already welcome, has been largely dominated by a small number of works crews with Drivers that I doubt many would describe as the best of the best in rallying. Why would the current WRC guys not dominate that class too?

    I'm not discounting the idea that the R5s or a development thereof becomes the main class at some point, it might become a necessity in time, like Group B to Group A in 1986/1987. I just don't think it's desirable in the short term in comparison to what we have now, which could possibly be the last golden age of rallying. It's spectacular, enjoy it before it's gone rather than wishing it away prematurely...
    Last edited by the sniper; 28th December 2018 at 02:42.

  11. Likes: Hartusvuori (28th December 2018),steve.mandzij (28th December 2018)
  12. #990
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
    NASCAR has actually been suffering in many respects in recent years, its decline has been widely publicised. Here's one article: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sp...221945860.html Admittedly its problems aren't 'eco-political correctness' because many Americans don't seem to worry themselves about or believe in such issues, but it's incorrect to suggest that it's doing overly well.
    Nascar may not be on its peak but it’s totally correct to say it’s still a quite popular series. I’ve mentioned it to underline how demagogic some companies are when they boycott motorsport for alleged ecological reasons.

    We’re all petrolheads and the main point here is not about ignoring the environmental issues; is about having well thought out improvements in Rally, rather than ineffective moves motivated by mainstream sound-bytes.

    Eco friendly policies and even instructive campaigns (for many spectators being on a rally it’s a rare time in the nature) can actually be promoted in Rally without this need to rush into EV’s or expensive hybrids that pottencially will damage the sport.
    Rally addict since 1982

  13. Likes: Francis44 (28th December 2018)

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