[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

[stefanvv]

Although i also believe tanak and neuville could both be world champions, its not always so easy.
Without loeb hirvonen would have been a big champion, without ogier neuville would have been 4 times chamion.
Just because you have the speed doesn't mean you win the title, there are lots of other variables.

No matter what some diehard fans here might think, tanaks pace is undoubtedly connected to the yaris. Just because he has dominant speed today because the hyundai of neuville and the citroen of ogier are slower, does not mean he will be dominant next year and beyond.
He deserves to be champion, but it's not always that easy.

While yaris is undoubtedly the fastest car, Tanak was really fast with the fiesta too. But of course there was Ogier factor back then too. How much it really affected Tanak's championship in m-sport? It'll be ironic if he returns next year with them.

[denkimi]

It's like some people here seem to remember nothing that happened before 2018.
They seem to have forgotten how good ogier always has been, how he has always beaten everyone, even the maestro himself. They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast the ogier-polo combination was, but how that disappeared when he stepped in the fiesta.
They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast neuville was in early 2017, but how that completely dissapeared later.

And most of al, they seem to have forgotten that we have had a direct comparison between ogier and tanak. A comparison that showed that tanak is as fast as ogier, in the best optimistic case a tiny bit faster, dut definitely not that much faster as he is today in the yaris.

His speed is connected to the car, but the car doesn't drive itself. I believe people tend underestimate Tänaks raw speed, his form has just been rising in the past few seasons and might be at it's peak right now.

Meeke or Latvala have had some good stage times, but haven't shown consistent speed with the Yaris. Although they are also considered as drivers, who can win every rally.

The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

I have no doubt tanak has huge raw speed. He's is amongst the big 3, perhaps even the fastest of them all.
But i do have doubts about how changing team suddenly made him gain so much speed that he easily with one hand tied on his back beats the 6 times world champion and the 4 times runner up.

While yaris is undoubtedly the fastest car, Tanak was really fast with the fiesta too. But of course there was Ogier factor back then too. How much it really affected Tanak's championship in m-sport? It'll be ironic if he returns next year with them.

He was fast indeed, but he was not "humiliating ogier fast" like he is in the yaris.

[mknight]

Too bad it's somewhat irrelevant when it comes to Tänak's value on the driver market.

Ogier and Neuville have contracts for next year. (as well as Lappi and Loeb)

Out of the drivers who do not have contract Tänak is obviously the most expensive.
(others without contract are Latvala, Meeke, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Evans +Breen, Paddon, Østberg. Not sure about Suninen).

Whether Tänak at this moment has higher value than Ogier or Neuville is also irrelevant, cause those two are not on the market.

But sure we can speculate, even though it doesn't matter at all.

Ogier has imo higher value than Tänak right now but he is very vocal about ending soon. If teoretically Citroen could right now pick between him and Tänak they would pay more money for Ogier for multiple reasons (nationality, 6 titles already, developing at least 2 2017 cars..). For other teams the decision could depend on whether they want results and publicity right now or want to also think about next 3 years.

Similarly Neuville has immense value for Hyundai, probably higher than they would pay for Tänak, cause he is the only driver out of 5 that can drive the i20 consistently fast on most rallies. All the other 4 that drove it could't do that (Loeb is one of them). So if there was a question they would definitely pick him over Tänak. But Neuville's pace with i20 gives him much lower values in the eyes of other teams cause they have to wonder whether he picked up some "bad" habits that will not work with other cars. (ex. his tarmac style)

Clearly for Toyota, Tänak is a must have for top results atm since the other two have contracts. Therefore they might pay him much more than Ogier and Neuville are currently getting. At the same time they seem to be aimed at staying in WRC for multiple years, so if they don't get him, they might run next year with a team without one of the Top3, focusing on sorting reliability and developing Rovanpera and Katsuta as their future drivers (with Joukhi's Suninen at the ready).

[mknight]

They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast neuville was in early 2017, but how that completely dissapeared later.

This had to be quoted as it is the most recent example of big speed dominance that seemed unstopable.... until it wasn't there.

[trykmann]

And most of al, they seem to have forgotten that we have had a direct comparison between ogier and tanak. A comparison that showed that tanak is as fast as ogier, in the best optimistic case a tiny bit faster, dut definitely not that much faster as he is today in the yaris.


The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

He might not be this dominant, but I belive he would still be the fastest guy. Season 2017 was still a learning year for him and throughout the season you could see his speed growing. Also his driving style has become a lot more neat, precise and consistent.

Yaris is definetely the fastest, but it wouldn't be without Tänak. He might be one of the best drivers for setting up cars and the driver shouldn't be underestimated for making a good setup.

I am just a bit annoyed, when the public and even WRC commentators express their opinion like the Yaris drives itself.

[stefanvv]

The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

We can only speculate about this, but yes, I do believe Tanak would be just as dominant in Fiesta this year, even if it's just in terms of points, not raw speed. Surely somehow he managed to make yaris to his liking, still he was always comfortable in the fiesta.

[krissucool]

To give you guys a clue about how the industry that revolves around making money on sporting results thinks. Tänaks odds to win the title this year are currently at 1.30 on average. Giving him a roughly 80% chance for the title.

What is even crazier, when Tänak was trailing neuville by 28 points before Chile, his odds were around 1.40 - 1.50.

Now, if you think Ogier will win the title this year then I suggest you to bet big amounts on him. His odds for the title currently at around 3.50 on most books.

[cali]

It's like some people here seem to remember nothing that happened before 2018.
They seem to have forgotten how good ogier always has been, how he has always beaten everyone, even the maestro himself. They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast the ogier-polo combination was, but how that disappeared when he stepped in the fiesta.
They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast neuville was in early 2017, but how that completely dissapeared later.

And most of al, they seem to have forgotten that we have had a direct comparison between ogier and tanak. A comparison that showed that tanak is as fast as ogier, in the best optimistic case a tiny bit faster, dut definitely not that much faster as he is today in the yaris.


The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

I have no doubt tanak has huge raw speed. He's is amongst the big 3, perhaps even the fastest of them all.
But i do have doubts about how changing team suddenly made him gain so much speed that he easily with one hand tied on his back beats the 6 times world champion and the 4 times runner up.


He was fast indeed, but he was not "humiliating ogier fast" like he is in the yaris.

Time goes on and what was yesterday is not the reality tomorrow

[denkimi]

He might not be this dominant, but I belive he would still be the fastest guy. Season 2017 was still a learning year for him and throughout the season you could see his speed growing. Also his driving style has become a lot more neat, precise and consistent.

people also seem to forget, or just don't know how long tanak has been around.
he started rallying in 2001/2002, the same year as latvala. ogier started in 2006, neuville in 2007/2008.
he started his wrc career in 2012, the same year as neuville.

he's not a young driver anymore who should be learning and who's speed must grow.

Time goes on and what was yesterday is not the reality tomorrow

indeed. perhaps after summer break ogier or neuville could win every rally, who knows.
the margins are small, a little increase in the pace of the citroen or the hyundai could completely turn things around.

lets just hope it stays exiting till the last rally, like last year. whoever will win, he will have deserved it.

[Tarmop]

Great, you've looked at ewrc. Now look what and where each of them was driving. Comparing Latvala's WRC debut with a WRC to local youth events in a mk2 golf is third level...