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  1. #391
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
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    "Eastern Europe" is such a complex definition that I wouldn't blame anyone for counting Poland or Czech Republic in. It's probably used just as often to merge certain countries into each other than it is for geographical definition.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  2. Likes: pantealex (14th October 2018)
  3. #392
    Senior Member SubaruNorway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToKu View Post
    Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

    Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.
    I thought there had been a decent amount of people in Turkey but after watching the onboards there can't have been more than 2-500 people pr stage apart from city and start of powerstage. That's too little for a country that already had a WRC fanbase from previous years.
    "Die with memories, not with dreams" Scott McIsaac
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  4. #393
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    "Eastern Europe" is such a complex definition that I wouldn't blame anyone for counting Poland or Czech Republic in. It's probably used just as often to merge certain countries into each other than it is for geographical definition.
    Yes but merged on which base? Central European countries have different alphabet, different religions and different culture than Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. and the history is not much connected (well, the Polish is - with never ending wars with with their eastern neighbours). We were part of the Warshaw pact for fifty years but that's nearly all out of the last thousand years or so. Now we are all in EU so by the same logic we shall be called Western Europe which is obviously also a nonsense.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  5. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Yes but merged on which base? Central European countries have different alphabet, different religions and different culture than Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. and the history is not much connected (well, the Polish is - with never ending wars with with their eastern neighbours). We were part of the Warshaw pact for fifty years but that's nearly all out of the last thousand years or so. Now we are all in EU so by the same logic we shall be called Western Europe which is obviously also a nonsense.
    Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
    As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.

  6. Likes: AL14 (14th October 2018)
  7. #395
    Objective observer stefanvv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
    As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.
    That's correct. We used to call Eastern European countries based on the political arrangement, not geographic. Everything else was Western/Scandinavian.
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
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  8. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL14 View Post
    For example, from my perspective (Italy), eastern Europe is everything east of Vien and Berlin and south of Scandinavia. Hell even baltic republics are east Europe for us. The only exception is Greece, Greece is not east but Albania and Macedonia (or should we say north macedonia soon?) are!
    I think this is due mainly from the iron courtain which has divided the continent for half a century. Your image is something like a Subregion map of Europe right? Well I can say that it does not show how Europe is perceived by a lot of its inhabitants.
    From that point of view instead, your country together with Poland and others is part of "middeleurope" the "Mitteleuropa" which actually has strongest root in the history.
    What I also notice is the green for Italy and Greece but I was sure that from other Europe countries we were also in the same club as Spain, Portugal, maybe even France as southern Europe states.
    Well I'm Italian as well but I don't share that view, I guess because I've always looked at the continent with a geographical eye. Hell, some people think Europe ends at the Russian border instead of the Ural Mountains.
    But yes, many people here see Italy as South or even West Europe, then if you mention Slovenia they say it's East Europe. Then you make them notice that with that view there would be no Central Europe and that East Europe would be two/three times as big as Western Europe.
    I guess the "political (outdated) map" is still influencial, but we have to consider that countries are shaped in many different ways so you cannot always place one in a definite region. For example, I've always thought of Poland as Central-East Europe, because it's quite a "large" country.
    And I consider a good part of Italy as part as the Mittle Europa, also because of its history... if you look at the Mitropa Rally Cup, they have always multiple rounds in Italy, mainly in North-East but also more South in Casentino.
    Well, I also apologise for the OT

  9. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
    As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.
    That's the same as the definition in the UK. Czech Republic is described as Eastern Europe along with Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and Bulgaria. Austria is 100% Western European though....

    They clearly reference former politics rather than geography.

    (UK is a pretty fucked up country though)

  10. #398
    Senior Member bomber21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubaruNorway View Post
    I thought there had been a decent amount of people in Turkey but after watching the onboards there can't have been more than 2-500 people pr stage apart from city and start of powerstage. That's too little for a country that already had a WRC fanbase from previous years.

    I was in Turkey on September. On the Marmaris city stage there were MYRIADS of people. Endless crowd. But in the mountains I saw mostly European fans. In Cicekli we were almost alone. Some policemen in the entrance of the stage were impressed to see us and asked “Who sent you here”?? In Ula I saw mostly Europeans drinking beers and in Datca some Finnish and Estonian people. Service park was so empty the first days you could have discussion with the drivers.

    I want Rally Turkey to be in the calendar but Turkish fans need to go to the mountains.

  11. Likes: steve.mandzij (14th October 2018),SubaruNorway (14th October 2018)
  12. #399
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
    As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.
    I know but it's ridiculous and stupid in the same time because it's based on 44 years long order which has been 29 years gone.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  13. Likes: stefanvv (14th October 2018)
  14. #400
    Senior Member AL14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Well, history didn't take just 50 years of iron curtain existence. Central Europe is historically connected mostly with the existence of Holy Roman Empire, Austro-Hungarian Empire or Polish-Lithuanian principality and with the fact that these areas were mostly catholic or protestant but not orthodox like most of the Eastern Europe.

    PS Just out of curiosity I live 150 km to the west of Vienna, 500 km to the west of Helsinki and 250 km to the west of Taranto.
    Exactly, that's why I said that that idea of "middle Europe" has deeper roots in history.

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