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  1. #111
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanremo View Post
    I mean, is that abomination really necessary when Finland is scattered of beautiful natural jumps? We have yet the Harju stage for the average Joes. Nowadays, too many rally organisers seem to lack of self-respect. Not to mention that more than often they are the same that want you to pay a ticket... so no excuses.
    They should ask rally Monte Carlo organisers how things should be done... no SSS, long event, night stages, tradition. And they are not even asking for money!!!!!
    It's just something for the big crowds at the end of the power stage, and also to put the finish of the rally at a place near a suitable place for podium celebrations. Also, it's a part of a bigger motorsport arena that will be used for other things as well.

    I don't know how Monte Carlo is funded but I would guess the average member of ACM drives a Ferrari more likely than a member of AKK.

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  3. #112
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I don't know how Monte Carlo is funded but I would guess the average member of ACM drives a Ferrari more likely than a member of AKK.
    But only because roads around Monte Carlo are more suitable for Ferrari than roads in Finland

  4. Likes: AnttiL (7th June 2018),pantealex (7th June 2018)
  5. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    It's just something for the big crowds at the end of the power stage, and also to put the finish of the rally at a place near a suitable place for podium celebrations. Also, it's a part of a bigger motorsport arena that will be used for other things as well.

    I don't know how Monte Carlo is funded but I would guess the average member of ACM drives a Ferrari more likely than a member of AKK.
    I’m aware of what you are writing about. That’s the reason why I said that. This ever growing circus mentality is making a mess of this sport (especially when it comes down to chicanes that are now deciding fights). I’m not against SSS, especially when they are well thought like the Harju street stage (even though I’m still waiting for a concrete evidence of the SSS new rally fans luring potential), but I think there should be a limit to the number of SSS (2 or 3 of them would be enough) and to what the organisers can do to attract these “big crowds”. I would limit these artificial elements to the street stages, living the proper stages untouched. That would be an acceptable trade off. The money they get from tickets should be poured as much as possible into the event to make it even bigger. Let’s have more kms for example. This year rally Finland route consists of 317 kms vs the 360 of 2014. We are paying more and more without any substantial improvement. And for what it concerns the Ruuhimaki stage, I’m fine as it was in 2014. Actually it was perfect for a PS. It was able to convey what this sport is all about. No need to transform into the XGames.
    I’m not even against paying a ticket for the sake of the sport, but for the average Joe 75€ (not to count his family) could be a deterrent. I don’t know you but I’m not interested in spending 60-70€ to spectate at a football match, even though I live near a football stadium and occasionally I watch soccer on tv. It’s just that I’m not really interested in that sport to justify it. Not to say that the majority of rally fans don’t move between the stage so you are left with 3 stages repeated twice during the all weekend.

  6. Likes: sonnybobiche (12th June 2018)
  7. #114
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanremo View Post
    I’m aware of what you are writing about. That’s the reason why I said that. This ever growing circus mentality is making a mess of this sport (especially when it comes down to chicanes that are now deciding fights). I’m not against SSS, especially when they are well thought like the Harju street stage (even though I’m still waiting for a concrete evidence of the SSS new rally fans luring potential),
    Well, actually Harju has a number of similar chicanes which could be touched, causing penalties. Ruuhimäki or any other forest stage won't have any artificial chicanes.
    This year rally Finland route consists of 317 kms vs the 360 of 2014.
    Does this have something to do with the rules FIA presents? In 2014 they did forest stages already on Thursday, now it's not allowed anymore (except MC can do whatever they want)
    And for what it concerns the Ruuhimaki stage, I’m fine as it was in 2014. Actually it was perfect for a PS. It was able to convey what this sport is all about. No need to transform into the XGames.
    Maybe they want to divide the people around the stage, instead of everyone packing into the five jumps at the end?
    I’m not even against paying a ticket for the sake of the sport, but for the average Joe 75€ (not to count his family) could be a deterrent.
    The Average Joe would probably just buy a 20€ single ticket, right?

    Super specials have always been a part of rally. Harju was driven already in the 60's. And before that they had these skill tests where you had to brake before a line or weave around cones.

    Still, I agree that two super specials is a good number for a WRC rally of the current length, not like Mexico with eigth of them.

    I think the whole circus thing and the VIP's etc. are just a way to secure the financial side and continuity of the rally. Us hardcore fans can just go into the forest through our own paths outside official spectating points and forget about the rest.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 7th June 2018 at 15:35.

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  9. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Well, actually Harju has a number of similar chicanes which could be touched, causing penalties. Ruuhimäki or any other forest stage won't have any artificial chicanes.

    Does this have something to do with the rules FIA presents? In 2014 they did forest stages already on Thursday, now it's not allowed anymore (except MC can do whatever they want)

    Maybe they want to divide the people around the stage, instead of everyone packing into the five jumps at the end?

    The Average Joe would probably just buy a 20€ single ticket, right?

    Super specials have always been a part of rally. Harju was driven already in the 60's. And before that they had these skill tests where you had to brake before a line or weave around cones.

    Still, I agree that two super specials is a good number for a WRC rally of the current length, not like Mexico with eigth of them.

    I think the whole circus thing and the VIP's etc. are just a way to secure the financial side and continuity of the rally. Us hardcore fans can just go into the forest through our own paths outside official spectating points and forget about the rest.
    When I said that I like the Harju street stage, I was meaning that it is not a trailer park stage (like last year Thursday Germay SSS or Mexico City one). I would dare to say that stage is how close as we can get to a proper stage when it comes to SSS. That’s all what I like of it and wanted to say. My judgement was not implying any reference to the presence of chicanes. I should have been more specific.
    I’m not aware of any rule forbidding to tackle any proper stage on Thursday. My bad. I know that Rally Monte Carlo benefits from a special status, but it would be quite weird from their side to disregard FIA explicit rules on the matter. Given that I’m not an expert like you on Finnish stages, I guess that it’s not strictly necessarily to add Thursday stages to have 40 kms more when you can have slightly longer SS. Just few kms here and there per stage.
    For what it concerns the artificial jump at the end, I really hope that your assumption is right. If that’s been done on safety grounds I’m fine with it, but I still think others are the reasons behind this move as you pointed out in the last part of your post.
    Maybe they should sell promotional discounted tickets at SSS. I don’t know. Nowadays, there are so many people out there not even willing to pay 8€ for a cinema ticket that I’m wondering how would be possible for SSS occasional spectators to spend 300€ (in my case: 4 people). It would be more suitable for them to buy stage by stage tickets to start with (It seems I can’t find them on rally Finland website. Maybe you can help me out with that. If they exist, the problem is solved).
    At least we agree on the maximum amount of SSS.
    Maybe, I should have put this in a more simple way right from the beginning: as a long term rally fan I can’t simply turn my back like that and I would prefer to see all these artificial stuff and non-rally elements restricted to SSS as much as possible, leaving the proper stages untouched. Still I recognise that modern rallying is a compromise and money talks. I know you understand the feelings of hardcore fans at that sight, even though it is just one jump over the entire course of the rally. Still I agree it is not that big a deal by now.
    So no reason to argue. You still have the best rally in the world I was just expressing my personal preferences.

  10. Likes: AnttiL (9th June 2018),pantealex (9th June 2018)
  11. #116
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanremo View Post
    Given that I’m not an expert like you on Finnish stages, I guess that it’s not strictly necessarily to add Thursday stages to have 40 kms more when you can have slightly longer SS. Just few kms here and there per stage.
    Each loop between two services can have 80 km of stages long at maximum. Meanwhile, adding more service park visits to a day would push the schedule and tyre amount limit. So it's not that easy to make it longer.
    For what it concerns the artificial jump at the end, I really hope that your assumption is right. If that’s been done on safety grounds I’m fine with it, but I still think others are the reasons behind this move as you pointed out in the last part of your post.
    For sure there's nothing concerning safety with the Ruuhimäki artificial jump. The stage will have 9 junction turns over 11 kms, and half of the roads are narrow and tricky, so there's no reason to jump for reducing average speed. Instead, the jump is preceded by a 400m straight acceleration.

    An interesting story about the only other artificial jump in Finland, the "Tommi's Jump" in Kakaristo: it was supposedly built by a farmer whose house is on the outside of a corner. He got tired of having to repaint his house every year so he built a new bit of road on his field going a bit further form his house, with that jump added.

    I’m wondering how would be possible for SSS occasional spectators to spend 300€ (in my case: 4 people). It would be more suitable for them to buy stage by stage tickets to start with (It seems I can’t find them on rally Finland website. Maybe you can help me out with that. If they exist, the problem is solved).
    For sure there is stage by stage tickets, if I remember correctly, they cost 20 euros.

    Still I agree it is not that big a deal by now.
    So no reason to argue. You still have the best rally in the world I was just expressing my personal preferences.
    Thumbs up, good discussion anyway

  12. #117
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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  14. #118
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Seb Marshall criticizes artificial jumps but gives thumbs up for the Ruuhimäki end jump https://twitter.com/sebmarshall/stat...03226707091456

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  16. #119
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    VETOMIES has 72 entries now, even some leading competitors from Finland national championship.

    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    Entry for support rally VETOMIES is open.

    40 first entries are in for sure and after that organisation can choose who is accepted. Total 70 crews will be taken.

    Link to entries:
    https://akk.autourheilu.fi/Public/Ki...id=7682&edit=0

    Press "Osallistujat" in top for those names.
    WRC event has only 1 new entrant: Pierre-Louis Loubet, i20 R5 (total 20 now)
    Last edited by pantealex; 13th June 2018 at 13:55. Reason: Entry of Loubet
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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  18. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    Entry for support rally VETOMIES is open.

    40 first entries are in for sure and after that organisation can choose who is accepted. Total 70 crews will be taken.

    Link to entries:
    https://akk.autourheilu.fi/Public/Ki...id=7682&edit=0

    Press "Osallistujat" in top for those names.
    79 for VETOMIES now.

    Mattias Monelius SWE Fabia R5 and Sanjay Takale IND Fiesta R2 are new entries for WRC event. (Total 22 crews now)
    http://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/site...anta180618.pdf

    When Gill makes his entry we will have 2 Indian drivers and I don´t remember that this has happened before.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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