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  1. #831
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    I think the fine is weird. Normally, when they judge it's illegal assistance, the only possible penalty is exclusion. I'm not saying it is, it's a grey zone. And despite being a Neuville fan I'm happy his not excluded. But they don't have to state he breached that rule but not exclude him as they should do with every crew breaching that rule.
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  2. Likes: KKS (10th June 2018),Mirek (10th June 2018),sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)
  3. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    those italians are going to erase their country's debt at such pace....
    You mean those real Italian stewards, like Waltraud Wünsch and Kai Tarkiainen?
    www.wrcpickem.weebly.com

  4. Likes: janvanvurpa (10th June 2018),Mirek (10th June 2018),pantealex (11th June 2018),Rallyper (11th June 2018),tommeke_B (10th June 2018)
  5. #833
    Senior Member Watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    those italians are going to erase their country's debt at such pace....
    Says the Greek guy. What was the proverb with the stones and the glass houses again?

  6. Likes: skarderud (11th June 2018),TypeR (10th June 2018)
  7. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by m-ast View Post
    There is reference of that, just article 13.3.2, characteristics of the power stage: "Be preceded by Media Zone and a regroup of at least 30 minutes. Arts. 42.5.2 and 48.2.2 do not apply for this Media Zone and this regroup."
    Thanks for the reference. It indeed says that 42.2.2 does not apply for the media zone and regroup prior to a power stage. However, that only confuses matters more. Since 48.2.2 is an article that sets out constraints on when and by whom food, drink, clothing, and information can be passed to and from the crew, a strict reading of 13.3.2 would mean that 42.2.2 does not apply at this time and that there are no constraints on passing food drink clothing and information to or from the crew during this regroup. It is unclear what the intent of 13.3.2 actually is, but ambiguous wording can only be the fault of the FIA.

    Moreover, it seems to me the stop control made a mistake handing the time card to Tanak, since Ogier could have realized his mistake or been informed by the team (who saw it on live TV) and turned around to go get it. Once it was given to another competitor, that was out of Ogier's control.

  8. #835
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    At stagend where Ogier just drove off, he must have been given a message over the team comm system. He suddenly blew off the interviewer and just drove off.
    Maybe something to do with tyrechange or something else that had to be checked before the next stage.

    Have the team explained something on why he just had to go asap?
    www.parcferme.no

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  10. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    The stewards decision, under the section "Reason", reads as follows:

    "WRC Art. 2.13 clearly states that the "... receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid..." is not allowed."

    Well, actually, no motherfucker. It states that "The use or receipt by the crew of any manutfactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers)..." is prohibited. Nice try leaving that part out, as if nobody would consult the fucking rulebook. Obviously the timecard is supplied by the organizers.


    The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

    So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
    -in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
    -in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

    However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.

    Once again, I can see absolutely zero justification for Ogier/Ingrassia being handed ANY penalty whatsoever, suspended or otherwise. I hope they will appeal and I hope that the FIA will clean up this legal mess that they created through their complete incompetence. But since the FIA are clearly borderline retarded, I don't hold out much hope.
    The rule itself states:

    "The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the
    organisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of
    team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2."

    What the article says is this: You're never allowed to receive any good, solid or liquid, unless the good is supplied (i.e. given) to you by the organisers. In this case the first requirement is met due to a time card being a solid material. So far, so good. Hence the time card could only have been legally given to Ingrassia by the organiser, not by Tänak.

    In other words: The rule has nothing to do with the fact that the time cards are issued by the organisers, but the fact of the matter is whether the time card in question is supplied (i.e. given) to a competitor by anyone who isn't an organiser.

    Theoretically, if the time card had been given to Ingrassia by a steward (who went to the next time control by foot or bike), the acceptance of the time card would have been legal as per Art. 2.13. Since it was given ("supplied", cf. the rules) by Tänak, the reception constituted a breach of the rules.

    Therefore, the decision of the stewards is completely in accordance with Art. 2.13 of the rule book.

  11. Likes: dupanton (11th June 2018),KKS (10th June 2018),Rally Hokkaido (11th June 2018)
  12. #838
    Senior Member stefanvv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyace View Post
    What the article says is this: You're never allowed to receive any good, solid or liquid, unless the good is supplied (i.e. given) to you by the organisers. In this case the first requirement is met due to a time card being a solid material. So far, so good. Hence the time card could only have been legally given to Ingrassia by the organiser, not by Tänak.
    That's completely wrong interpretation. "Supplied" != "Handed" (received by hand). The rule is unclear in the second case, so it can be interpreted according to someone's desire.
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
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  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Moreover, it seems to me the stop control made a mistake handing the time card to Tanak, since Ogier could have realized his mistake or been informed by the team (who saw it on live TV) and turned around to go get it. Once it was given to another competitor, that was out of Ogier's control.
    It has been stated earlier in this thread that it's not allowed to drive back into TC. Probably they decided to give the time card to Tanak as a mean to let Ogier continue the rally, without prematurely ending the fight, since Ogier would have been excluded without time card. I think if it was a random WRC2 driver to have forgotten the time card, nothing like this would have happened.

  15. Likes: pantealex (11th June 2018)
  16. #840
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    The International Sporting Code carries this item in the Penalties section

    12.1.1.i Failure to follow the instructions of the relevant officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.

    It could be argued that Tanak was following following instructions in taking the card and giving it to Ogier.In other words both parties were doing as they were told and had they not done so then they would have both been penalised
    You can't drown a man who was born to be hung.

  17. Likes: sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)

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