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  1. #841
    Senior Member KKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    I am not sure "it is not allowed to give any assistance". Check the regulations and tell me which article exactly was broken. He was penalised for breaking article 2.13, but I think nothing happened wrong according to this article.
    Article that mentioned in decision - Art 2.13
    2.13 PROHIBITED SERVICEThe use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by theorganisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence ofteam personnel as defined in Art. 48.2.
    If that time card was brought back by a marshal or any other "organiser" people - no problem. But it was returned by Ott Tanak, who not an organiser. So Ogier receipt a manufactured solid material. And it was prohibited.

  2. #842
    Senior Member KKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefanvv View Post
    "2.13 PROHIBITED SERVICE
    The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the
    organisers
    ), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of
    team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2
    ."
    When Ott Tanak jump from competitors to organisers? I missed that moment.

  3. #843
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    ^
    ^

  4. Likes: pantealex (11th June 2018),Rally Power (11th June 2018)
  5. #844
    Senior Member KKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Well, actually, no motherfucker. It states that "The use or receipt by the crew of any manutfactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers)..." is prohibited. Nice try leaving that part out, as if nobody would consult the fucking rulebook. Obviously the timecard is supplied by the organizers.
    Supply and provide are different words.
    If organisers supply to Latvala full charged battery - it would be allowed. But did organisers make that battery? - no, just supply. So you can receive ALL things in the world FROM organisers

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

    So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
    -in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
    -in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

    However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.
    To enter a regroup - you must be checked-in into TC before regroup. HOW you can do it without timecard? All 48.2.2 worked only you checked in.

  6. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyace View Post
    The rule itself states:

    "The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the
    organisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of
    team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2."

    What the article says is this: You're never allowed to receive any good, solid or liquid, unless the good is supplied (i.e. given) to you by the organisers. In this case the first requirement is met due to a time card being a solid material. So far, so good. Hence the time card could only have been legally given to Ingrassia by the organiser, not by Tänak.

    In other words: The rule has nothing to do with the fact that the time cards are issued by the organisers, but the fact of the matter is whether the time card in question is supplied (i.e. given) to a competitor by anyone who isn't an organiser.

    Theoretically, if the time card had been given to Ingrassia by a steward (who went to the next time control by foot or bike), the acceptance of the time card would have been legal as per Art. 2.13. Since it was given ("supplied", cf. the rules) by Tänak, the reception constituted a breach of the rules.

    Therefore, the decision of the stewards is completely in accordance with Art. 2.13 of the rule book.
    I disagree. What is prohibited is "The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers), spare parts tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2"

    So what the article says is this: The crew are not allowed to use or receive any manufactured material except those supplied by the organizer... The term "supplied" refers to the nature of the manufactured material, i.e. receipt of manufactured materials supplied by the organizers is not prohibited. If "supplied" were intended to refer to the process of how an item is received by the crew, it would come at the end Art. 2.13, because it would also apply to the use or receipt of "spare parts, tools or equipment..."

    Therefore, "supplied" can be read to mean that any item that was initially supplied by the organizers is ok, and that sort of seems to be how the stewards read it, since they mention under extenuating circumstances that "the time card [...] was not a new item received".

    Even if you somehow interpret "supplied by the organizers" to refer to how the item is received by the crew, the fact that the organizers gave the time card to Tanak with the intention of Tanak bringing it to Ogier means that the organizers effectively "supplied" the card to Ogier. The only way to argue otherwise would be if there was an explicit rule that clearly stated that the manufactured material must be physically given directly to the crew by the organizers each time.
    Last edited by sonnybobiche; 10th June 2018 at 22:41.

  7. Likes: stefanvv (10th June 2018)
  8. #846
    Senior Member KKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m-ast View Post
    there is more going on, 10000€ fine to Hyundai for a wrong photo in the homologation form of the R5: rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=1767
    BTW it's not first time when Hyundai make changes to R5 car and didn't renew photos in homologation.

  9. Likes: sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)
  10. #847
    Senior Member stefanvv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKS View Post
    When Ott Tanak jump from competitors to organisers? I missed that moment.
    Anti Ogier propaganda won't make my words different. Well, actually not my words anyway.
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI

  11. #848
    Junior Member m-ast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKS View Post
    To enter a regroup - you must be checked-in into TC before regroup. HOW you can do it without timecard? All 48.2.2 worked only you checked in.
    Not fully that, it also applies in the media zone before the entrance in the reagroup, so maybe there was the case

  12. #849
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    The marshal should not be allowed to hand over one's crew time card to another crew/member.

  13. Likes: dupanton (11th June 2018),KKS (10th June 2018),Rally Power (11th June 2018)
  14. #850
    친애하는 지도자 N.O.T's Avatar
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    Its a clear exclusion... simple as that.

    Not fair of course, but still rules are rules...
    The North Will Rise Again
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/158173595@N03/albums

  15. Likes: KKS (10th June 2018)

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