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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    4WD Cars with national/regional homologation

    What countries have ASNs with currage to homologate 4wd cars that are cheaper than R4/R5?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    What countries have ASNs with currage to homologate 4wd cars that are cheaper than R4/R5?
    In other words: Which countries are so stupid that they don´t play with FIA rules?
    (Those countries don´t want their drivers to have international career)
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    It is fully up to the national body to approve a car type that FIA has not.

    It cant be any worse than continue with the older cars in your F-Cup where some cars are pretty special (and very quick), than allowing the Mirage or the Dytko cars. Cars that are new and hopefully safer, if it was safety that was your argument?

    In Norway we have a class for old Group A/N cars, where int homologation has expired, many nations has the same I guess. But costwise they are not cheap to run.

    The whole reason to make a new R4 class was to make a class to replace N4, that had a very healthy 2nd hand market. Cheap entrance for drivers wanting to test 4wd.
    FIA failed miserably, and R4 will be very close to R5 in new price, running costs to early to tell.

    In track racing most countries have classes approved nationally, is that also not ok, and is that in your book Pantalex also "not playing by FIA rules"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    In other words: Which countries are so stupid that they don´t play with FIA rules?
    (Those countries don´t want their drivers to have international career)
    I don't believe that is strictly true. For example, AP4 is a good way to get near to R5 performance from a car, that is supported by a local manufacturer that otherwise wouldn't be in the sport... So that allows a competitor to compete, whereas otherwise they may not have been able to get enough sponsorship to compete if they had to be in an FIA car. Example here in NZ is the AP4 Holden Barina. Not a car you can buy anywhere else and without Holden footing the bill, I don't imagine the 2 guys driving them would be in the sport as they probably wouldn't be in a position to afford another car that is as fast. So by being able to introduce another manufacturer to the sport, it makes the sport stronger and gives opportunity to get exposure.

    I don't believe the car dictates whether you can compete internationally later on. However you do have to use it for it's purpose, competing in the country that allows them and then realise to go to other countires you may have to rent a car. Ie going from national championship to ERC or JWRC etc, would require hiring a car to then take that step up. Fortunately things like JWRC make that a relatively easy process.

  5. Likes: Hartusvuori (18th December 2017),Maui J. (19th December 2017),Rally Power (18th December 2017)
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    In other words: Which countries are so stupid that they don´t play with FIA rules?
    (Those countries don´t want their drivers to have international career)
    But there is a question of this: in many places its not realistic to adopt classes which compel the big majortity..99,9% who have no intention of ever travelling with the expense of any of the FIA R classes when there are effectively zero people with the imagination, the fantasy that they will one day have a "career" ----which mean make a living earning money---at rally..
    Sure some places there are enough rich guys or sons of rich guys who want to play but many parts of the world there aren't enough...so its imposed 3-4x the expense plus extra organiser budget enforcing pointless class...

    USA and Canada together--no point....South America--Argentina and Chile, no point.
    Oz and NZ no point.
    John Vanlandingham
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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    It's quite different in Europe and overseas. Here in Europe there is quite a huge number of used R5/S2000 available everywhere and it's for sure true that an ASN which keeps its rules in accordance with FIA helps its drivers to get abroad (and vice versa). On the other hand sometimes it's really hard to swallow what FIA invents and especially on the starter and really cheap level it's dificult to have someone competiting and follow FIA rules in the same time (as You know there is only one R1 available on the market for example).

    So IMHO it's good if ASN allows local cars and applies some local rules BUT what I do think is that the top class in every national championship shall be FIA-compatible to avoid Spanish scenario from several years back when the top national league is totally isolated from the outer world - it means drivers don't go abroad and the national level slowly degrades because there is no influence from continental/world level.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    It's quite different in Europe and overseas. Here in Europe there is quite a huge number of used R5/S2000 available everywhere and it's for sure true that an ASN which keeps its rules in accordance with FIA helps its drivers to get abroad (and vice versa). On the other hand sometimes it's really hard to swallow what FIA invents and especially on the starter and really cheap level it's dificult to have someone competiting and follow FIA rules in the same time (as You know there is only one R1 available on the market for example).

    So IMHO it's good if ASN allows local cars and applies some local rules BUT what I do think is that the top class in every national championship shall be FIA-compatible to avoid Spanish scenario from several years back when the top national league is totally isolated from the outer world - it means drivers don't go abroad and the national level slowly degrades because there is no influence from continental/world level.
    You are correct. But there are 3 R1 cars: Ds3, Twingo and Fiesta

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    Quote Originally Posted by dupanton View Post
    You are correct. But there are 3 R1 cars: Ds3, Twingo and Fiesta
    and 0 of those are in production anymore.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    and 0 of those are in production anymore.
    Fiesta R1 it seems can still be ordered.

    http://m-sport.co.uk/motorsport/rall.../cars-for-sale

    with a good driver even a R1 can be quick. Anders Kjær at Rally Sørland in 2012.
    http://motorsportfilmer.net/2012/ral...-ss6-fiesta-r1
    But R1 never took of in any country. Could be a good class for 16-18 year old youth.

    Back to 4wd classes for youngsters and gentleman drivers!

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    Well starter was provocative, so I answered in same way.

    Those self built 4wd cars are allowed in Finland, but they run in separate classes and can´t score any championship points. I have nothing against that, but it should stay like that.

    Biggest problem to me is: How to keep these cars slower than R4/R5, because already now rules in Finland are wrong, you can make old car way too powerful/good, 2 examples:
    FIN-R evo9 is more powerful than Mitsu WRC02 which is allowed in FIA spec only.
    Old Civic EP3 FIN-R is more powerful than Civic R3, all R3´s are in garages because old model is quicker.

    Also Polo with mitsu engine sounds stupid.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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