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  1. #1121
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Again, it’s hard to find a mention to the 25.000 units (or 50.000, as Gr.A started in ’82 with a mandatory 5.000 units homologation, reduced to 2.500 in ’93) in FIA regs.
    Try this from Toyota

    Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) premiered the new GR Yaris―a homologation*1 model born to win the FIA World Rally Championship (WRC)―at the Tokyo Auto Salon today.(Appendix 1): https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/30976389.html

    (*1) The necessary type of certification for participating in an FIA (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) race. To acquire WRC homologation, the base model of a vehicle to be entered in a race must have a continuous 12-month production volume of 25,000 units or greater.



    The Yaris GR is so different from the normal Yaris, it itself must be considered the BASE MODEL, hence it needs 25,000 units.

    The Ford Fiesta WRC is based on the Fiesta ST. But the ST is very similar to the base Fiesta. So Ford has to make 25000 basic Fiesta's and only 2500 ST's.


    And from another forum on this subject:

    Quote: RSgeoff
    I don't understand why they need to sell 25,000 to qualify for WRC - why aren't all the other WRC manufacturers having to do the same then?

    Jakeh:
    It's because they changed the car too much for it to count as a variant of a normal Yaris, so they have to do a special production car to count as the base for the WRC car.
    Last edited by Fast Eddie WRC; 11th March 2020 at 16:25.
    Chris Ingram (GBR) - Ross Whittock (GBR)
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  2. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Try this:

    (1) The necessary type of certification for participating in an FIA (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) race. To acquire WRC homologation, the base model of a vehicle to be entered in a race must have a continuous 12-month production volume of 25,000 units or greater.


    This is for the BASE MODEL. But the Yaris GR is so different from the normal Yaris it itself is considered as a BASE MODEL, hence it needs 25,000 units.

    The Ford Fiesta WRC is based on the Fiesta ST. But the ST is very similar to the base Fiesta. So Ford has to make 25000 basic Fiesta's and only 2500 ST's.


    And from another forum on this subject:

    Quote: RSgeoff
    I don't understand why they need to sell 25,000 to qualify for WRC - why aren't all the other WRC manufacturers having to do the same then?

    Jakeh:
    It's because they changed the car too much for it to count as a variant of a normal Yaris, so they have to do a special production car to count as the base for the WRC car.
    And where do you draw the line? When is a new version no longer a base model?

  3. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Try this:

    (1) The necessary type of certification for participating in an FIA (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) race. To acquire WRC homologation, the base model of a vehicle to be entered in a race must have a continuous 12-month production volume of 25,000 units or greater.


    This is for the BASE MODEL. But the Yaris GR is so different from the normal Yaris it itself is considered as a BASE MODEL, hence it needs 25,000 units.
    What is the source for this quote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    And from another forum on this subject:

    Quote: RSgeoff
    I don't understand why they need to sell 25,000 to qualify for WRC - why aren't all the other WRC manufacturers having to do the same then?

    Jakeh:
    It's because they changed the car too much for it to count as a variant of a normal Yaris, so they have to do a special production car to count as the base for the WRC car.
    Sorry mate but just quoting random people from an unnamed forum really means nothing.
    Last edited by the sniper; 11th March 2020 at 16:23.

  4. #1124
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Try this:

    (1) The necessary type of certification for participating in an FIA (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) race. To acquire WRC homologation, the base model of a vehicle to be entered in a race must have a continuous 12-month production volume of 25,000 units or greater.
    Iíll be pleased to try it if youíre kind enough to mention the source of that quote.
    Rally addict since 1982

  5. #1125
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Edited now...
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    To spice things up: there are rumours confirming both arguments that there will be 2500 GR4 models and 23500 groceriegetters with "no engine", FWD and CVT just sharing the same body.
    Prices also known: 33k in Germany, 37,4k for a "circuit pack" with LSDs, fancier seats etc.

  7. #1127
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Edited now...
    Thanks for the link; it’s hard not to be surprised with that info, especialy once the FIA rules (at least the ones I know) don’t mention it.

    From FIA article 255 of 1997 appendix J (the year WRC cars were introduced):

    Article 255 – Specific regulations for touring cars (group A)
    1) DEFINITION
    Large scale production Touring Cars
    2) HOMOLOGATION
    At least 2.500 identical examples of these cars must have been manufactured in 12 consecutive months.
    A “World Rally Car” (WR) is a variant of a fixed model of car, previously homologated in Group A and must therefore be assembled like a Group A vehicule.
    (…)
    https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...j_1997_low.pdf

    It makes pretty clear that WRC homologation variant must be based on an existing Gr.A model and a Group A model must be produced in 2.500 units.

    Btw, it’s important to note that a variant is not a model by itself but an extension, mostly composed by a set of parts, in the homologation form of a base (Group A, in this case) model.

    Finnaly, here’s article 031 of the 2020 FIA appendix J / Article 255 A, the specific regulations for WRC cars (WRC Kit Variant):

    ART. 031: Original Car - The series production car homologated in Group A on which the WRC kit variant car is based.
    (…)
    It can be downlowded by googling this:
    ANNEXE J / APPENDIX J - ARTICLE 255A – 2020 ... - FiA

    Basically, it says the same: WRC is not a model by itself but a variant of a homologated Group A base model; therefore there’s only the need to produce 2.500 units of a Group A car to achieve WRC variant homologation.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 11th March 2020 at 18:40. Reason: 2nd link change
    Rally addict since 1982

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  9. #1128
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    "Some homologation specials relate very loosely to their racing cousins, but the GR Yaris is a proper job. The three-door shell and bodywork are bespoke. The roof is lowered by 91mm and made of carbon fibre, and the doors are frameless.

    Underneath, it’s a merging of the Yaris chassis at the front, and the Corolla at the rear. This allows for clever double-wishbone suspension and that 4WD system. It even has a manual gearbox.

    While the regular white-goods Yaris is built in France, the GR will be made at a specialised Gazoo Racing facility in Motomachi, Japan, using ‘a large number of manual processes’. As well as Gazoo Racing, the GR Yaris also had input from the WRC Tommi Makinen Racing team."

    You can see from this how unique the GR Yaris is and totally different in every way from a standard (homologated) Yaris.

    It is in essence a Yaris in name only - hence the requirement to make 25,000 units to homologate this new 2021 car.
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  11. #1129
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Further clarification from: https://www.crankandpiston.com/new-t...y-2020-reveal/

    "Why go to all the effort and expense of re-engineering things such as the roofline and axles for a homologation special ?

    Gazoo Racing’s 2021 Yaris WRC car differs so much from the standard Yaris that this homologation model will need to be produced. In contrast to old Group N WRC rules, which required a limited number of closely related road-going examples to be produced in order to comply (think early Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or Subaru WRX), today’s rules allow a wider chasm between the road and rally versions.

    Venture outside these limitations, as Toyota Gazoo Racing looks to have done, and a far bigger production run is required to homologate the race car.

    As such, the GR Yaris will not be limited to just a few hundred units, instead Toyota will need to produce a full 25,000 next year in order to comply with WRC regulations."
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  12. #1130
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Eddie, you can keep posting dozens of quotes from mags and sites but that’s not a clarification once they all got the same media pack from Toyota. What’s needed to clarify this matter is to know the exact FIA rule on which Toyota based the 25.000 units mention on their PR.
    Rally addict since 1982

  13. Likes: pantealex (13th March 2020),T16 (13th March 2020),the sniper (12th March 2020)

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