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  1. #1071
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    Makinen and team order

    Tommi Makinen reportedly said to Andrew Cowan (his boss from Mitsubishi era, he died in October) something like: "For Toyota I want to be, who you were for Mitsubishi" (and Cowan was to answer: "You won't be, you can't employ such a great driver, as I could"). It seems, that Tommi doesn't follow the way of his mentor, at least not completely. Rally of Sweden, 25 years ago, 1995: Cowan told Tommi not to put a pressure on Kenneth Ericsson (before the last day Ericsson was 1st, probably 1 second, or sth like that, ahead of Makinen). Tommi was irritated. He didn't slow down, before the last special stage of last day had circa 40 of 50 seconds of advantage, and stopped almost at the end, only to present his attitude towards "team order". Well, maybe this is a psychological key (as it was suggested in one of previous posts). Anyway, it is really interesting. I am not sure, what is my opinion about Makinen's way vs Adamo's way. I have no opinion.
    By the way: was Andrea Adamo also the professional rally driver (I don't know)?

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  3. #1072
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmop View Post
    Again, Rovanperä should not be put under pressure by these overwhelming comments nor overhyped (tiresome probably to him also) . Yes, he has done fine until now, lets wait for it a bit more...there are many examples of doing fine from the start...Suninen and Lappi started of magnificent, but are somehow stuck...mr. Novikov was also great in his second season (but remember, that it was his second season in the series also, without lower classes).
    No. I think this is another level than all of them mentioned as examples. Two very difficult rallies with such mature and youngster stylish done, can´t be one offs... Sorry.
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
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  4. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    No. I think this is another level than all of them mentioned as examples. Two very difficult rallies with such mature and youngster stylish done, can´t be one offs... Sorry.
    What two rallies? He did great in Sweden, in Monte he was 4 mins behind. Doing a good job but nothing head scratching given he drove the rally before.

    Just like in 2017 when Lappi and Suninen started I am getting a bit tired of some of the hype he gets. Sure he is doing great, but when reporters mention it in every interview it gets tiring. He must be fed up with it most of all. Can't remember Loeb being threated with same hype in 2003.

  5. #1074
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    If Kalle and Ogier would have been 4-5 or 5-6 (not in podium places) then maybe Team orders could have been used,
    but it would have been so bad PR now so it wasn´t option in this situation.

    When was last time someone was taken away from Podium with Team order?
    (counting out last rallies of season I prefer)
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

  6. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    When was last time someone was taken away from Podium with Team order?
    (counting out last rallies of season I prefer)
    Mikkelsen in Sweden last year.
    Check out the results in last 3 stages and most notably the PS. On that one he beat Neuville both the year before and on first run on Friday (by 7s) and was 3rd fastest WRC. Yet when he was just 4s behind on Sunday he instead finished almost 1s/km behind the winner as one of last WRCs and talked how he was crossing his fingers for Thierry.

    He was rewarded 2 days later by being told he won't drive on Corsica.

    EDIT: Lappi was pretty much denied fight for win by teamorders in Turkey last year as well. Starting Sunday on same time as Ogier he "took it cautious" and finished next stage as 2nd last car 0.8s/km behind Ogier. Doesn't count as "taken away from Podium" though.
    Last edited by mknight; 18th February 2020 at 19:03.

  7. #1076
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    i have no issues with the way Tommi handled the Kalle/Ogier situation. I think Kalle deserved the 3rd place he worked hard for all weekend (especially the last stage effort) and it would have been very unfair to deny him that. I also think Kalle did very well in Sweden, but this should not be blown out of proportion as he still has a lot to learn compared to the likes of Ogier/Tanak/Neuville/etc. Ogier is a very professional and seasoned driver and knows how to win a championships, it appears he assessed the stakes and did not want to take the extra risks to secure 3rd place; there are several rallies to come and a new car to learn some more about. i don't think Ogier has lost his mojo or is on any kind of a decline, he's 3rd in the championship at the moment which says a lot. He's a smart and calculated person.

    i'm very happy to see Evans stepping up his game, congrats to him and i hope he's able to take the fight to the top 3 consistently over the season. On a side note, i also hope Lappi can somehow get to that level as the season progresses but i'm not sure if it's him and/or the car that needs the little extra push. Finally, it looks like Breen had a rough weekend, but to be thrown in the deep end and make it to the end while following the team orders is nothing to be scuffed at---he did ok given the situation.

    bring on the next rally
    Last edited by gorganl2000; 18th February 2020 at 18:53.

  8. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    No. I think this is another level than all of them mentioned as examples. Two very difficult rallies with such mature and youngster stylish done, can´t be one offs... Sorry.
    Monte was good, but he had done it before...Tänak was out, Ford`s were pretty much out from the start. Great result ofc in Monte, though nothing that special.
    Sweden...he started driving at the age of 8....on ice-tracks+ at the beginning of the year, he enjoyed the conditions in Finland (event+ testing) and those are the roads we know Yaris performs the best. You also have to count that the event was ran only 50%, we don`t know what would have been in normal circumstances (like he said it himself, tyre managment is something he doesn`t know very well yet), with first starters having a bit better conditions to make up for the lost time and vice versa.

    We have to wait with the hype, especially with handing out titles. Just saying...

  9. Likes: Marcco (19th February 2020),steve.mandzij (18th February 2020)
  10. #1078
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    What two rallies? He did great in Sweden, in Monte he was 4 mins behind. Doing a good job but nothing head scratching given he drove the rally before.

    Just like in 2017 when Lappi and Suninen started I am getting a bit tired of some of the hype he gets. Sure he is doing great, but when reporters mention it in every interview it gets tiring. He must be fed up with it most of all. Can't remember Loeb being threated with same hype in 2003.

    Loeb definitely got it, im sure you can just watch some highlights or something if you can't remember. When Duval got his first podium in Turkey, I remember future champion comments from reporters and commentators. That was Duval..., in a car breaking Turkey....

    Kalle deserves the hype imo. He's a level headed lad and I doubt he pays much attention to it either way, so dunno why it is so tiring. It's exciting and I fail to see why a rally fan can't see that, as it's not normal seeing a 19yr old kid beat his 6time WRC champion team mate, in equal conditions over the course of a rally (and on a powerstage that Ogier is renowned for getting big pts in).

    It's not like Kalle did one or two good stage times, he has put two good rallies together (one showing top speed, one showing good maturity/sensible approach). The potential is absolutely massive.
    Last edited by er88; 19th February 2020 at 00:15.

  11. Likes: AnttiL (18th February 2020),Rallyper (19th February 2020),sindroms (19th February 2020),steve.mandzij (18th February 2020),T16 (18th February 2020)
  12. #1079
    Senior Member GigiGalliNo1's Avatar
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    Did I miss something? Kalle was given the podium by Ogier? Team orders?
    GG: "I'm stinky! I needa good shower and nice bowl of pasta!"

  13. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1 View Post
    Did I miss something? Kalle was given the podium by Ogier? Team orders?
    You've got it the wrong way round. Kalle not given team orders.
    Never stop dreaming because one day it might happen.

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