WRC Engines

[Mirek]

Yes, it is. A lot of times.

For example the Focus WRC 08 - the official numbers were 300 Hp @ 6000 rpm and 550 Nm @ 4000 rpm. Such values are somewhat comparable with gr. N Evo with 33 mm restrictor. More realistic estimation would be something like 850 Nm @ 2500 rpm and 370 Hp @ 6000 rpm (it's only estimation but definitely closer to the reality than the official numbers).

The very first Fabia WRC in summer 2003 had 300 Hp @ 5500 rpm and 550 Nm @ 3500 rpm. The engine was a complete disaster. In 0-200 km/h measurement the car was 2 seconds slower than late Octavia WRC (cca 320-330 Hp and 600 Nm). They had to change electronics and some other things to make it better. Why I say that? Because the values are nearly same with the official figures for Focus WRC 08. With such values M-Sport would never win anything as those were bad even for the time ten years before.

[janvanvurpa]

They might not be exact but I'm sure its not wildly off.

Matt, look at that line as if somebody else wrote it and look what that which is written implies...

You have said who you are, a student, and not a participant, mechanic, engineer, team volunteer, nuthin...and you have asked for information---which means you don't hvae info, which means you don't know..
Nothing here nor there about not knowing. (I know some stuff abouth the negines but it is not any concern to me because that is not what ANYBODY active or potentially active in USA or Canada is using, so a casual interest only---and I build serious engines)

But look...Somebody IN the business fairly deeply says "don't believe everything you read"

And you say "they may not be exact" which is OK, repeating what others have told you

"but I sure...."

Matt, how can you say you are sure of anything?

That is illogical. And understanding which follows from illogic rarely is sound..

I mean you're a student...students are not suppoed to be "sure' of anything---or they wouldn't need to be in colleges or University to get taught..

How can you be sure they're not wildly off?

[LouKayne]

Jon, settle down haha no need to get heated over a simple statement. I can't be sure of anything but I guess I really shouldn't of said I'm sure but why would they say an engine has 300Nm less torque than it really has. Yes maybe a 100Nm off but 300Nm?

[Rallyper]

Jon, settle down haha no need to get heated over a simple statement. I can't be sure of anything but I guess I really shouldn't of said I'm sure but why would they say an engine has 300Nm less torque than it really has. Yes maybe a 100Nm off but 300Nm?

You didn´t listen, did you. "They" can say anything, everything and the only truth is the dynonumbers. Which is held totally in secret from guys like you and me.

[LouKayne]

I know they can do what they want just 300Nm seems crazy but who am I to say right you guys are the experts. I just got in contact with an ex M-Sport engineer and he's going to help me with some information for my project. Ill share as much as I can with you guys.

[janvanvurpa]

I know they can do what they want just 300Nm seems crazy but who am I to say right you guys are the experts. I just got in contact with an ex M-Sport engineer and he's going to help me with some information for my project. Ill share as much as I can with you guys.

So you have a project... what project?

[LouKayne]

So you have a project... what project?

Yes its my final year thesis project. I haven't narrowed it completely down but it will be something to do with World Rally Cars.

[Mirek]

Jon, settle down haha no need to get heated over a simple statement. I can't be sure of anything but I guess I really shouldn't of said I'm sure but why would they say an engine has 300Nm less torque than it really has. Yes maybe a 100Nm off but 300Nm?

The reason why they write unreal values is that 99% of people who read them have no clue and either simply believe or don't care. That's how 21st century world works... sadly.

Seriously, how many people know what the torque really means? I mean power is quite understandable but torque isn't an easy thing to understand especially if discussed engines are of different conception.

[janvanvurpa]

Jon, settle down haha no need to get heated over a simple statement. I can't be sure of anything but I guess I really shouldn't of said I'm sure but why would they say an engine has 300Nm less torque than it really has. Yes maybe a 100Nm off but 300Nm?

Kid you say a lot of very odd things.. why in the world would you presume I'm "heated" about anything?

Nothing here to get heated about...not to be mean but don't you suppose that if a guy has been deeply invilved in a sport for 30 years that he has encountered dozens and dozens of noob-u-lar guys who have all kinds of "brilliant" ideas? After a while one just gets kinda blasé about guys with "big ideas" when you see 30-40% of guys who say they are "into" or "interested" in things way over their skills and budgets never finish projects.. hell even guys trying to build rudimentary rally projects have a very high % who never finsih their projects...
Who can get "heated " over that?

I am just trying to help you think about how you are thinking...Because if you are drawing wrong inferences then that means there's little point in trying to find details of things---if the info is going to be ignored or misunderstood.

So now...days later, now you say what you could have siad at the beginning, something like "I have a project to do ________________________ and I thought "maybe I should find out what the current WRC engines are like so that I can ______________________ and _______________ and then I'd be closer to my goal"

[janvanvurpa]

You didn´t listen, did you. "They" can say anything, everything and the only truth is the dynonumbers. Which is held totally in secret from guys like you and me.

And further, the dyno numbers they get are abstract or idealt and only say how the engine works and nothing about how the car might go....I usually have to remind newbs that we don't drive flow benches or drive dynos, we drive whole CARS...

And in rally, especially on unpredictable surfaces...gravel and snow, it is how the whole car actually works which is the most interesting.....so things like gear ratios, final drive, suspension design and travel, brakes that play just as much roll as the engine in how the car does...