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  1. #531
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    ERC should have a R4 class in 2019, maybe call that one ERC2 and the 2wd class ERC3.

    Could also make a Under 25 class with R4 cars.
    www.parcferme.no

  2. #532
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    For what? Cheaper ERC classes have been around for ages yet very few took part (ERC2 for gr.N cars, ERC3 for 2WD cars). ERC doesn't need more new classes. It shall work on what works, i.e. mainly U28 and U27. This is where the real value of ERC is and where the effort shall be concentrated.

    U25 do compete in U27. For God's sake don't try to divide the so successful group into two. This is a perfect way how to change one successful championship into two useless ones.
    Last edited by Mirek; 8th November 2018 at 17:10.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  4. #533
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    The most successful seies outside Wrc lately has been IRC. They took a gamble and went for S2000 as top class. It paid off so well that FIA killed both the car and the series off.

    ERC of today has not been the success many of us hoped for, in terms of numbers.

    So maybe show a pair again and go for R4 as top class?
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  5. #534
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    The most successful seies outside Wrc lately has been IRC. They took a gamble and went for S2000 as top class. It paid off so well that FIA killed both the car and the series off.

    ERC of today has not been the success many of us hoped for, in terms of numbers.

    So maybe show a pair again and go for R4 as top class?
    Again whyyyyy? Why should anyone do that when every top team in Europe has R5? Sorry but have You come from Mars? What You suggest is complete nonsense.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  7. #535
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    For what? Cheaper ERC classes have been around for ages yet very few took part (ERC2 for gr.N cars, ERC3 for 2WD cars). ERC doesn't need more new classes.
    Actually, it's not about having a new class; it's about getting R4 cars into ERC2, once R4 main purpose is to replace N4 in the rally scene; to run them on R5 class is a waste, as they’re not supposed to compete with R5's. Hopefully, FIA's new class naming will already have that in mind.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  9. #536
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Actually, it's not about having a new class; it's about getting R4 cars into ERC2, once R4 main purpose is to replace N4 in the rally scene; to run them on R5 class is a waste, as they’re not supposed to compete with R5's. Hopefully, FIA's new class naming will already have that in mind.
    That makes more sense but I fail to see why it shall attract more drivers than today when the eligible car would be twice more expensive than today. Take into account that there were only four competitors in ERC2 who did at least four events this year - even though they could use cheap gr.N cars and fight for an official ERC champion title.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  10. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Again whyyyyy? Why should anyone do that when every top team in Europe has R5? Sorry but have You come from Mars? What You suggest is complete nonsense.
    If R4 is made top car class in ERC, the top teams will have to swap car to compete. Simple logic (non)sense

    But We need a few more rallies to see how much difference in speed there is btw R4 and R5, and to see reliabiliry on the R4s.

    But as said before, I struggle to see R4 take the place of the old N4. It is way to expensive. Lets see if competition btw tuners brings prices a bit down, and hopefully there will be a second hand market in 2020.
    Last edited by Sulland; 8th November 2018 at 23:23.
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  11. #538
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    If R4 is made top car class in ERC, the top teams will have to swap car to compete. Simple logic (non)sense .
    OMG, how is that cheaper to buy a completely new car when I have one and faster?
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  13. #539
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    That makes more sense but I fail to see why it shall attract more drivers than today when the eligible car would be twice more expensive than today. Take into account that there were only four competitors in ERC2 who did at least four events this year - even though they could use cheap gr.N cars and fight for an official ERC champion title.
    The main reason why there were only four regulars were that FIA introduced that stupid rule about mandatory racing fuel tanks. I know about other 3-4 crews which were planning to do. Which is not so bad for dying category of cars...

  14. #540
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    In Finland R4 compete in same class with "N4" beginning 2019. (we have 2 different classes for 4wd)

    R4 is probably faster but same thing was when S2000 replaced "N4" and again when R5 replaced S2000.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

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