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  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantealex View Post
    Fiesta bad (we don´t need R1,R2,R4 and R5 from same car)

    Dacia yes please !
    Why, if a driver is a huge Ford fan, and want to buy a R4, he should be able to buy one.

    For a team planning to do a season in a 4wd its usually about budget.
    Budget to buy a car, new or used.
    Budget to run the car in x rallies.
    Budget to maintain the car in top shape.

    Lets say that a R4 cost 150 000€, a R5 cost 250 000€, both new.
    Running costs are probably more or less the same per rally.
    Maintenance is said to be 20 to 30% less on the R4. Depending on the series, that could also become a lot of money. Not sure what a season in ERC or WRC2 will cost, but to get an easy figure to calculate with lets say 100 000 in ERC, that could be another 30 000 saved by choosing a R4.

    using these unsure numbers a team could save 130 000€ first season.
    Not bad!

    What we do not know yet are how well the R4 will hold up, and if the 20-30% savings will stick.
    www.parcferme.no

  2. #522
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    It doesn't work like that. To have money from sponsors you need results (unelss it's your own money, aka Al Quassimi & co. style and in that case you usually don't have a need for cost saving). That means that the performance is first and formost important thing. It's much easier to get certain amount of money for a driver who can convince his sponsors that he is ready to fight for the overall victory than 3/4 of the same sum for someone who presents them an idea to try to do the championship with a cheaper but slower car.

    As it was said the R4 makes sense for overseas markets but not much for Europe.

    For Your infomation around 2012-2014 in your math to drive older Punto S2000 or Proton S2000 was way more cost-effective yet nearly nobody did it. Simply because the cars were slower than than the Fabia.
    Last edited by Mirek; 7th November 2018 at 21:39.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  3. Likes: pantealex (9th November 2018)
  4. #523
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    See your point Mirek, but you are lucky coming from a country where rally is big, and business see potential in sponsoring motorsport.

    in many countries that is not the case, and up and coming drivers in many cases will have to pay most of it themselves. Many young talented drivers are either driving in national classes or R2 too long. Many quit rally, due to expenses.

    For north european countries where cross country skiing, and football steal all the big sponsors, it is hard times to get a season even in the national series.

    Getting in the Mirage and R4 might help, but still very expensive on a normal salary, at least in my country.
    So now you know why I feel a cheap R3 4wd ala the old N4 class is a good idea.
    www.parcferme.no

  5. #524
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    To have money from sponsors you need results (...) That means that the performance is first and formost important thing. It's much easier to get certain amount of money for a driver who can convince his sponsors that he is ready to fight for the overall victory than 3/4 of the same sum for someone who presents them an idea to try to do the championship with a cheaper but slower car.
    Is a R4 car eligible for ERC2?
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

  6. #525
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    AFAIK no
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  7. #526
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    It doesn't work like that. To have money from sponsors you need results (unelss it's your own money, aka Al Quassimi & co. style and in that case you usually don't have a need for cost saving). That means that the performance is first and formost important thing. It's much easier to get certain amount of money for a driver who can convince his sponsors that he is ready to fight for the overall victory than 3/4 of the same sum for someone who presents them an idea to try to do the championship with a cheaper but slower car.

    As it was said the R4 makes sense for overseas markets but not much for Europe.

    For Your infomation around 2012-2014 in your math to drive older Punto S2000 or Proton S2000 was way more cost-effective yet nearly nobody did it. Simply because the cars were slower than than the Fabia.
    I dont agree with you. Comparison with S2000 is not the best, because you are talking about same cars in category. R4 was from beginning thought as lower class than R5, it should be a step between R5 and fastest 2WD cars - with the speed, price and costs. And with all protos or nationally homologated cars, I think there is still a lot of place for them, also in Europe. For me the biggest problem for that project was that "Oreca way" is simply too expensive...

  8. #527
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Z View Post
    Is a R4 car eligible for ERC2?
    Eurosport was trying to have R4 in ERC2 also for 2018, but it was refused by FIA. We will see what will happen for 2019. There are some teams interested in doing ERC with R4 next year...

  9. #528
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    I dont agree with you. Comparison with S2000 is not the best, because you are talking about same cars in category. R4 was from beginning thought as lower class than R5, it should be a step between R5 and fastest 2WD cars - with the speed, price and costs. And with all protos or nationally homologated cars, I think there is still a lot of place for them, also in Europe. For me the biggest problem for that project was that "Oreca way" is simply too expensive...
    Sorry but no such class exists in the current FIA scheme. Both R5 and R4 are RC2 class.

    Besides that it's clear that overall results are the most important for the sponsors and a car sitting one class lower but being only marginally less expensive doesn't make economical sense.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  10. Likes: dimviii (8th November 2018),tommeke_B (8th November 2018)
  11. #529
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Sorry but no such class exists in the current FIA scheme. Both R5 and R4 are RC2 class.

    Besides that it's clear that overall results are the most important for the sponsors and a car sitting one class lower but being only marginally less expensive doesn't make economical sense.
    Yes, that is another problem. R4 cars should be in different class than R5 cars. And thats not true, not only overall results are most important for the sponsors. Because with this logic you should have no chance to find any sponsor with any car out of R5...

  12. #530
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    And thats not true, not only overall results are most important for the sponsors. Because with this logic you should have no chance to find any sponsor with any car out of R5...
    That's not what I have said. The point is that You can hardly get SAME or SIMILAR money from the sponsors to compete somewhere in lower classes. That's why the cars in lower classes must be reasonably cheaper, not only slightly.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  13. Likes: dimviii (8th November 2018),pantealex (9th November 2018),tommeke_B (8th November 2018)

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