2014 Russian Grand Prix Thread

[Ranger]

He would have won the four titles regardless, as Mark never managed to adapt to the counter-intuitive driving style needed to make the EBD cars work. But in hindsight, yes, I defended RB too much. They saw Mark had problems adapting and they relegated his car to an afterthought after 2010. I simply didn't believe they'd be so cynical, but seeing how this season went and the rather cynical comments we got from within RB, I had to revise my opinion. It's a ruthless operation. Just ask Vergne.

This I agree with. In hindsight, I'm not sure anyone else could driven those EBD cars like Vettel did, for the reasons you just mentioned.

It remains to be seen whether Vettel can replicate the EBD-era form at Ferrari in years ahead.

[journeyman racer]

And to think, if only Felipe Massa hadn't ran out of talent and spun about 50 times in Silverstone 2008, he would have been champion. Oh well, guess the better man won both that race and the title

I like your cherry picking. You have a talent for it. BUt anyway, It was not 50. You're just exaggerating. Not for the first time.

Even if he did spin 50 times. He was only trying to emulate the biggest fluke win in motorsport (Even bigger than Paul Morris winning Bathurst), which was Hamilton's 08 Monaco win.

As ordinary Massa was that day. It wasn't as dumb as ploughing into a car stationary at a red light. Damn! Hamilton was really, really lucky that year. And now, he has a car which is more superior than what a lot of other champs have had in comparison. Very lucky.

[The Black Knight]

I like you're cherry picking. You have a talent for it. BUt anyway, It was not 50. You're just exaggerating. Not for the first time.

Even if he did spin 50 times. He was only trying to emulate the biggest fluke win in motorsport (Even bigger than Paul Morris winning Bathurst), which was Hamilton's 08 Monaco win.

As ordinary Massa was that day. It wasn't as dumb as ploughing into a car stationary at a red light. Damn! Hamilton was really, really lucky that year. And now, he has a car which is more superior than what a lot of other champs have had in comparison. Very lucky.

Well, I just remember he spun about 5 times in something like the first 4 laps. I think that is a record by itself to be honest. I think you are exaggerating by calling Masaa ordinary that day. He was far from ordinary. He wasn't even at the level of an F1 driver that day. So should the WDC really hold the record for the worst drive of the year? I don't think so. In fact, I think to be a WDC you should be up there with the best all the time. Having an off race one can deal with, but having a drive that embarrasses yourself? That's definitely not something worthy of a WDC. That race in Silverstone was so embarrassing that it is reason enough for Hamilton to deserve the WDC.

I don't remembe the red light incident of Monaco however, so if you've a video feel free to post it. Otherwise, I'm sure I have that race recorded somewhere at home and can look at it. I wouldn't call it luck that Hamilton is in the top car now. He made a calculated decision on where he was going and it paid off. It's a result of a lot of hard work. It's not just by chance that Hamilton has won a race every year he has been in F1, it's simply because he is the best at getting the most out of a car along with Alonso.

[The Black Knight]

Hah.. just imagine what if Hamilton's car breaks in Abu Dhabi and then Rosberg earns 50 points. Sad, but possible.

That is actually what I am worried about. I actually am not sure I'd watch F1 ever again if a stupid rule like double points swayed the championship.

Looking at this year, I think actually that Bernie's medal system wasn't so bad after all.

[steveaki13]

I like you're cherry picking. You have a talent for it. BUt anyway, It was not 50. You're just exaggerating. Not for the first time.

Even if he did spin 50 times. He was only trying to emulate the biggest fluke win in motorsport (Even bigger than Paul Morris winning Bathurst), which was Hamilton's 08 Monaco win.

As ordinary Massa was that day. It wasn't as dumb as ploughing into a car stationary at a red light. Damn! Hamilton was really, really lucky that year. And now, he has a car which is more superior than what a lot of other champs have had in comparison. Very lucky.

I agree entirely. I am generally a Hamilton fan, but he got so lucky with that title, but in the end he won it and deserved it.

Same as if Hamilton wins the next 2 races but retires in Abu Dhabi and Rosberg nicks it. Rosberg will deserve it because its the rules and most points win.

Of course the double points this season is stupid and which ever driver gets screwed by it is also going to be a bit unlucky.


Rosberg (the elder) won his title with 1 win wasn't it. That might be seen as lucky, but until the medal system comes in, he scored most points and win the 1982 title.

Same as Hamilton 08, Button 09 who are both considered lucky.

Same also as Nico if he wins this season

[steveaki13]

Well, I just remember he spun about 5 times in something like the first 4 laps.

Sorry to bang a point, I was at the British GP 2008 so it sticks in my mind.

He spun 4 times in the whole race that I remember, not the first 4 laps

[jens]

Doesn't really matter how many times Massa spun, since he was dog slow in that race anyway, about on level with Ide. However, that's not the criteria whether he deserved the title or not, because title is won by the amount of points in the end and if you collected more points than the others from other races, it's fine. I am sure many champions have had truly embarrassing races, where they were ridiculous, even if such race didn't occur in their championship winning season.

About 2008. Massa had the faster, but also a more unreliable car. So in the end it somewhat balanced out. Hamilton was probably the more talented of the two, but didn't have his best season either, throwing several results away. So that's how the points remained close till the end.

I think Hamilton has been better than Rosberg this year, but if Rosberg gets lucky to win it in the end, then he is the champion. Championship is a harsh cold competition and points collecting is an emotionless activity. Points collecting in itself doesn't include "deservedness", it is just a fact. If you have collected most points, you are the champion. And that's really it. "That's racing" as the saying goes. The rest of the discussions are for us, human beings, about race situations, luck, lack of luck, fairness, deservedness, and so on.

[Storm]

And to think, if only Felipe Massa hadn't ran out of talent and spun about 50 times in Silverstone 2008, he would have been champion. Oh well, guess the better man won both that race and the title

Or if Glock hadn't just forgotten how to defend a single corner at Interlagos.....

[Mintexmemory]

Or if Glock hadn't just forgotten how to defend a single corner at Interlagos.....

Except it's impossible when you are on bald dries in the wet

[airshifter]

In case you actually missed the race. Seb, starting from 4 positions behind Ricciardo was actually ahead of him after less than 10 laps. RIC demanded team orders via radio, which Seb answered by shaking him out of DRS range in less than two laps. He was then maneuvred ahead by Red Bull giving him a massive undercut. Seven seconds ahead of Vettel after the latter's way too late pitstop, Ricciardo lost further three seconds over he rest of the race.

It's true, Vettel got punked, but by the classless clowns behind the pit wall. No points for guessing why he's leaving the team. RB have forgotten awfully quick, who gave both their teams the first win and won 39 GPs and 4 titles for them. F1 has never been sentimental, but RB shafted him publicly for having the audacity to going to another team and that's an utter lack of class. The day will come when Danny RIC will be thrown to the wayside the same way when the next shiny new driver comes along.

In case you actually missed qualification, that is why Vettel started back in the pack. And you apparently have missed that I don't buy into the conspiracy theories. Nor did I buy into them when Vettel was kicking Webbers tail in the same car.

I can accept that any team would be smart to put their best talent on the side of the pit performing better, but that is common sense. To claim that teams intentionally sabotage one driver when so much money is at stake with the constructors title is just lunacy IMO.

Team orders are now legal. If they prefer one driver they could simple order the other to allow a pass on track when it suits them.