Top 10 Driver Rankings of past seasons

[journeyman racer]

I am aware HHF retired on a few occasions, but compared to drivers, whose car broke down in at least half of the races, it was a much better reliability.

Who are you talking about? You might be thinking of another season. Hakkinen dropped it on his own a couple of times on his own. Schumacher and Irvine didn't. Maybe Coulthard, because breaking down while in a good/leading position happened quite a lot in his career, but HHF had him covered anyway. From memory, only Barrichello had chronic reliability problems from good positions.

[jens]

Who are you talking about? You might be thinking of another season. Hakkinen dropped it on his own a couple of times on his own. Schumacher and Irvine didn't. Maybe Coulthard, because breaking down while in a good/leading position happened quite a lot in his career, but HHF had him covered anyway. From memory, only Barrichello had chronic reliability problems from good positions.

I am talking about the whole field, starting with someone like Villeneuve, who had only 4 classified finishes. Or even HHF's team-mate Hill, who definitely had more issues than Frentzen, regardless of how well he was performing.

4 DNFs for Frentzen (one was a spin at Imola and one was car problem in Spain outside point position) was a sign of good reliability that year among his peers. Counting full-timers, only Irvine finished more than that, and Ralf Schumacher matched that.

And indeed both Coulthard and Barrichello had a fair amount of car failures. DC had 7 DNFs that year and usually, when he was in the race, he was ahead of Frentzen on the road.

[journeyman racer]

Coulthard was mediocre during 99. Prolific mechanical troubles only cover the fact he was, as can be seen by your thoughts. He finished second in Austria and HHF 4th. But tell me that Coulthard drove a better race? Hill was so disinterested during 99, that any race he finished, went 40-70 laps longer than what he wanted. Villeneuve only missed out on a couple of points positions. Barrichello may've missed out on a fair few points positions, but not enough to say he missed out on a really high place on the table, or diminish his reputation. Indeed, he got his reward by eventually getting the Ferrari contract. I'll stick my neck out and say HHF was the only one to be denied a win, from a leading/strong position, that year.

The claim that HHF was lucky, in any context, during the 1999 season, is the worst observation/memory in this thread.

[jens]

Sorry. If you read my posts I have mentioned that Frentzen did a very good job and is my driver of the year.

I am not driving about driving standards, I am talking about reliability ONLY. Sure, Frentzen performed better than Hill. But that's not the point. I am saying his reliability was also better. Ralf Schumacher's reliability was better than Zanardi's. Häkkinen's reliability better than Coulthard's, etc. Irvine's reliability was best of all, only one DNF at Imola.

In the same way - in 2012 Alonso had a great driving year, but also the best reliability. Not a single DNF with car problems. I mean good driving and reliability are not mutually exclusive - they both contribute to a good result.

Had Frentzen DNF-d from half of the races with a blown engine, he would not have finished 3rd in championship. Basic point. Look at his 2000 also in the Jordan. So many car problems, DNF-d from good positions at Melbourne, Silverstone, Hockenheim. This is where he was unlucky and lost many points.

[jens]

I'll stick my neck out and say HHF was the only one to be denied a win, from a leading/strong position, that year.

Erm, not really.

Häkkinen, Coulthard, M.Schumacher and possibly Barrichello all had issues in Australia and lost a win, which was inherited by Irvine.

Coulthard DNF-s from the lead in France with a car problem.

Häkkinen had a loose wheel at Silverstone. I don't remember if it was P1 or P2.

Häkkinen was punted out in Austria by his team-mate - lost win.

Häkkinen had a refueling issue and a puncture at Hockenheim - also lost win.

Coulthard was hunting down Irvine in Malaysia before a car problem - possible win challenge lost.

[jens]

The claim that HHF was lucky, in any context, during the 1999 season, is the worst observation/memory in this thread.

I may give a context.

First two races of 1999.

Häkkinen, Coulthard, M.Schumacher, Barrichello all had issues - so 1st Irvine, 2nd Frentzen.

Brazil.
Coulthard, Barrichello, Irvine (extra pitstop), Fisichella, Alesi - all had issues. Frentzen 3rd.

All in all Frentzen had collected 10 points in two races, while before any car problems of his rivals he was barely in points collecting positions.

Let's go into 2000. The other way around.
Frentzen was running 4th early on in Australia, later DNF from second.
He was running 2nd early at Silverstone, later DNF from 4th.

In terms of positions/competitiveness a better start than 1999, but reliability let him badly down.

[journeyman racer]

Jesus Christ! If you can't find a hole to pick, just make one, hey?

[jens]

Jesus Christ! If you can't find a hole to pick, just make one, hey?

It's ok. I am just trying to explain myself as a question was asked.

Other thing is that this thread is a mix of two different things - one is how or what we felt at that time, when we were watching, while being much younger. Other thing is how we view things today. Obviously these views change over time.

This Frentzen talk is not to take anything away from him, it was just about how I felt about his season back then when I was a small kid and defined things differently.

[jens]

What about driver rankings pre-1994?

Now it was quite a few years ago, when I was watching the full season reviews and full race videos from that era, but I try to recall.

1993
Senna as #1, Schumacher as #2 for me. Then Prost - he won the title, but it wasn't a convincing performance in a dominant car with Hill running close to him (but suffering worse reliability). Then obviously Hill had a good season. Both Ferrari drivers were okayish. Herbert had one of his best seasons in F1, certainly among top10 drivers of the season. And Brundle was decent.

Special mention to two very young Brazilians. Barrichello for a promising debut season and 'destroying' all his team-mates + that great race at Donington. Fittipaldi for getting a good score in the Minardi. From what I remember Warwick and Suzuki were qualifying pretty well in the Footwork, but didn't score many points. Don't know, how to rate them.

1992
It could be said Senna was once again the best driver though it is hard to compare since Williams was so much better. But obviously it was one of Mansell's best F1 seasons too as he comprehensively beat Patrese. And Schumacher was good in his debut season. Alesi put in a good show in Ferrari in wet races. Berger and Brundle were solid and good too – consistent and getting points on board.

Häkkinen stood out to me as a future star. I didn't remember that Herbert actually outqualified him as mentioned in this thread. We have been discussing here, how good was Herbert. It is possible that he was pretty good and promising all through 1992-1994, but the Benetton season as a #2 driver somewhat destroyed his momentum after which he was never quite the same again and repeatedly got beaten by team-mates.

The best season of Alboreto's swansong period (last 6 seasons in midfield) – consistently decent results. I am having a hard time remembering how exactly to rate the rest of the drivers in midfield and below that.

1991
Excellent season by Senna - #1. #2 for me would be Prost, who did a very impressive job in the unreliable and underperforming Ferrari. Then comes Mansell, who was fast, but all too often outqualified by Patrese and made a few blunders. Actually I rate Patrese really close to Mansell that year, with Riccardo suffering more misfortune.

Schumacher was obviously good in his last few races. Alesi was entertaining, but not very consistent yet. Berger solid as usual. Piquet got some decent results, but didn't seem to have much fire any more. Modena had a few standout performances – DNF from third at Imola, second at Monaco qualifying, second at finish in Canada. Certainly Modena's best F1 season.

De Cesaris was pretty decent actually in both 1991-92. Perhaps among two of his best F1 seasons, together with the 1983 one at Alfa Romeo. DNF from an incredible second in Belgium.

1990
Senna and Prost absolutely nip-and-tuck, I'd rate them as joint first. After them it is hard to rate. Boutsen and Patrese – fast, but not always convincing. Berger and Mansell – also inconsistent and couldn't match up to their team-mates.

Piquet ended up third in the championship, but from what I recall he was about a match to Nannini, who sadly got injured before the end of the season. Alesi was impressive, but still young and mercurial and made a few mistakes too among great drives. IIRC Derek Warwick looked pretty decent in the Lotus too.

1989
Senna as the best despite worse reliability. Prost had one of his least impressive seasons, so you could argue whether to rate Berger or Mansell up with him. Both Ferrari drivers were fast, but were suffering from horrendous reliability.

Patrese and Boutsen – their usual decent selves. Actually in 1989 and 1990 combined I'd rate Boutsen slightly above Patrese, which is why it was sad Boutsen got released by Williams just when the car was about to become a true spaceship. And Nannini made a serious mark that year by emerging as Benetton's lead driver.

OK, somebody else can carry on.