The new FIA WRC-car concept 2017

[focus206]

oh dear Lord...

[OldF]

A R5+ would be nice but it seems the R5s have some reliability problems, at least in the beginning.

Imo we don’t need at least yet any hybrids which would make the cars more expensive and heavier. Last Monday there was an article in a newspaper (Helsingin Sanomat) about Japanese manufacturers and two universities working together to develop a diesel engine with 30% less carbon dioxide emissions until 2020. At the end of the article was a mention about a survey made by Fuji Kenzai Group. By that survey 89% of the cars would still use a combustion engine in 2030.

There’s been suggestions also for prototypes (which in fact they already are, except the body shell) in this thread but at least I like to recognize the make by the look. How is it with the panel materials (cheap ones) for prototypes these days? How safe are they in case of fire?

Coupe / GT (not some “super” GTs like Porsche, Ferrari etc.) models would be refreshing and distinctive from these “family” road cars which are base for the WRC cars. I remember in the 60s when the BMC drivers usually drove with Minis but now and then with an Austin Healey.

[Jack4688`]

You've made me think of another up-in-the-clouds dream situation: 2 different cars that each manufacturer must homologate - one event VW could compete with two Polos, the next two Sciroccos and then another event split depending on which driver preferred which car. But I am not insane and know nothing like that will ever happen!

Bigger cars please, then hopefully more diverse body shapes. AMG A45 WRC would be a nice size car:

[Rally Power]

When the customers are gone, it takes lot of time and work to get them back. In that point it's good to remember, what was "the thing", why they had come there before.

To me “the thing” was rally adventurous side with challenging routes and extreme schedules.

Taking the ‘Rallye de Portugal’ example, back in the 70’s and the 80’s we had a rally course spreading at almost all of the country, with long (up to 14 hours) hard legs using day and night diversified stages, on all sorts of gravel and tarmac roads.

This highly demanding layout created an exciting atmosphere (sometimes a little bit out of control…) with a massive attachment from the Portuguese people - schools and business simply shut down at rally day!

Above all, there was a genuine devotion to the driving heroes and a huge acclamation of their ‘over human’ capacities. This is why nowadays Alen and Mouton still are more famous than Gronholm or Loeb!

Maybe we can’t go back to those days*, some would suggest they’re economically impractical (at the sometime we see the VIP areas and motorhomes growing in ‘pharaonic’ style), but we should clearly recognize that the ‘9 to 5 clover leaf format’ modern rallyes can’t simply produce public attachment, and, by consequence, general media appropriate coverage.

So, what can we expect from future? Unfortunately Tod’s intention on reviving the endurance rally spirit seems to have disappeared. In his place we'll probably have Capito's shootout scheme that'll definitely convert WRC into a sprint, x-games lookalike, series, mocking on a rich 40 years old history…


*We could reinvent it by using multinational rallyes, enlarging and spreading the Sweden/Norway example. Instead of 13 anonymous events, we could have 8 or 9 highly recognized rallyes, a sort of ‘mini dakars’, which would easily get media attention.

[janvanvurpa]

To me “the thing” was rally adventurous side with challenging routes and extreme schedules.

Taking the ‘Rallye de Portugal’ example, back in the 70’s and the 80’s we had a rally course spreading at almost all of the country, with long (up to 14 hours) hard legs using day and night diversified stages, on all sorts of gravel and tarmac roads.

This highly demanding layout created an exciting atmosphere (sometimes a little bit out of control…) with a massive attachment from the Portuguese people - schools and business simply shut down at rally day!

Above all, there was a genuine devotion to the driving heroes and a huge acclamation of their ‘over human’ capacities. This is why nowadays Alen and Mouton still are more famous than Gronholm or Loeb!

Maybe we can’t go back to those days*, some would suggest they’re economically impractical (at the sometime we see the VIP areas and motorhomes growing in ‘pharaonic’ style), but we should clearly recognize that the ‘9 to 5 clover leaf format’ modern rallyes can’t simply produce public attachment, and, by consequence, general media appropriate coverage.

So, what can we expect from future? Unfortunately Tod’s intention on reviving the endurance rally spirit seems to have disappeared. In his place we'll probably have Capito's shootout scheme that'll definitely convert WRC into a sprint, x-games lookalike, series, mocking on a rich 40 years old history…


*We could reinvent it by using multinational rallyes, enlarging and spreading the Sweden/Norway example. Instead of 13 anonymous events, we could have 8 or 9 highly recognized rallyes, a sort of ‘mini dakars’, which would easily get media attention.

Plus one. Thumbs up.
So sad to see a great sport ruined by such people.. From a truly exiting country wide adventure to just another little show of little cars virtually no different than boring circuit racers.
From something we could dream of doing to just another product where we are supposed to "consume" it.
Screw Capito..
Best possible headine: Capito Kaput

[Zeakiwi]

I have been a rally fan for over 30 years, but I do not like the way the sport has gone in the past few years.
good line motorsport vehicles are usually spaceframe - dakar, dtm, nascar. Australian supercar, nzst, nz-tlx, trophy truck etc.
I think wrc should be spaceframe to a uniform spec - like nascar. The emphasis should be on crew and efficient powertrains. Spaceframe is supposedly less difficult to repair after crashes.
http://www.mrx.co.nz/#!mrx-builds/c158d (NZ - tlx on jig )

http://youtu.be/mjU__B6Oaes (Nascar robot weld) use a robot to turn them out.

http://news.motorsport.org.nz/achiev...-tlx-v8-field/ (get engine parity to level the playing field)

Fia financial auditor to keep on eye on the books.

Balance the the carbon footprint - the wrc forest, use biofuels.

[Lundefaret]

I have been a rally fan for over 30 years, but I do not like the way the sport has gone in the past few years.
good line motorsport vehicles are usually spaceframe - dakar, dtm, nascar. Australian supercar, nzst, nz-tlx, trophy truck etc.
I think wrc should be spaceframe to a uniform spec - like nascar. The emphasis should be on crew and efficient powertrains. Spaceframe is supposedly less difficult to repair after crashes.
http://www.mrx.co.nz/#!mrx-builds/c158d (NZ - tlx on jig )

http://youtu.be/mjU__B6Oaes (Nascar robot weld) use a robot to turn them out.

http://news.motorsport.org.nz/achiev...-tlx-v8-field/ (get engine parity to level the playing field)

Fia financial auditor to keep on eye on the books.

Balance the the carbon footprint - the wrc forest, use biofuels.

Rallycross Supercars seems to offer a good combination off "bang for the buck".

Cheaper cars with a bigger difference between grip level and horsepower (less grip, more power) and a more sensual experience regarding sight, sound and smell, could be a way forward.

Spaceframes is cheap to manufacture and run, and would offer a very flexible alternative.

This would also make the playing field more even, beqause things like suspension travel etc would all be the same. Then You could decide how many of the components that should be "open", like dampers, gearbox, engine, diffs etc. And one could also do like in V8 Supercars where You could have an unbranded alternative to those who was not able or willing to develop their own components like an engine.

This seems to be the way a lot of series are heading, and it might be a reason for that

9 Years of Loeb supremacy has, togheter with bad promotion, done that the value of the TV-rights and the whole WRC-series has fallen quit dramatically. With more manufacturers, more drivers, stiffer competition, and more sight and sound, we can turn this around. But there are big positives happening, lets not forget that. Volkwsagen, Hyundai, maybe Toyota etc.

Also the fact that Hyundai is opperating like the factory teams of old, testing out multiple drivers etc, is also a BIG contribution to the sport. So good things are happening!

The things You mention about balancing the carbon footprint are also very important. To have the teams buy forest in ex Brazil, and call it "The WRC Forest" would be a very good idea, this should be done right now.

[Rallyper]

If the factories made bodyshells available for anyone interested the cars might be cheap even without spaceframed cars. Of course in both cases the look of the cars would be as the original model from the brand.

[Mirek]

I don't share the opinion that a way forward is in making cars basically same aside their look. In fact I don't like that at all. By that motorsport looses one of its fundamentals which is the engineering genius. Already the existing rules are making all cars basically same. The size, layout, main functional things, all operates same way in all WRC cars. The differences are in particular details but in nothing major. That's exactly opposite to how it used to be in the past. Mini bringing small nimble FWD to victory, Audi bringing 4WD or semi-automatic gearbox, Lancia bringing mid-engine RWD or two-level supercharging, Peugeot bringing mid-engine 4WD... all that and much more would never happen if the rules fix all cars in the same scheme.

[focus206]

I don't share the opinion that a way forward is in making cars basically same aside their look. In fact I don't like that at all. By that motorsport looses one of its fundamentals which is the engineering genius. Already the existing rules are making all cars basically same. The size, layout, main functional things, all operates same way in all WRC cars. The differences are in particular details but in nothing major. That's exactly opposite to how it used to be in the past. Mini bringing small nimble FWD to victory, Audi bringing 4WD or semi-automatic gearbox, Lancia bringing mid-engine RWD or two-level supercharging, Peugeot bringing mid-engine 4WD... all that and much more would never happen if the rules fix all cars in the same scheme.

+1, completely agree with Mirek. In fact, I would hate a silhouette formula. Unfortunately that diversity of engineering solutions we had in the past, now we don't have anymore and cars are much more similar to each other, but I think it would be extremely boring to have cars all the same except the look. Diversity is a reason why I like to follow national championships, I like to see S2000 vs N4 vs 2WD and others...