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  1. #51
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    I wonder if people who say that it's a good idea at least ever saw an electric race car by their own eyes.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  2. Likes: Francis44 (22nd August 2019),pantealex (22nd August 2019)
  3. #52
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But we're still here babbling about
    Yes, but there are much less fans than in 1985... TV doesn't even want to show rallying anymore...

    Regarding electric racing cars, have you seen this:
    https://www.facebook.com/ClubGranTur...9033970477798/
    Last edited by Jarek Z; 22nd August 2019 at 15:07.
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

  4. Likes: Francis44 (22nd August 2019)
  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Had rallying continued like in 1985, it wouldn't exist no more. And same will happen if rallying won't adopt changes.
    Or maybe if it continued with the same formula it would be more popular today. The truth is, no one knows. Do you have any data to support your quote?!

    Like the F1 promoters already figured out, the top motorsport categories will also have to look at other alternatives which dont completely alienate the existing fanbase. I hope the WRC does the same.
    Last edited by Francis44; 22nd August 2019 at 15:19.

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    You didn't get the point which is that extinguishing burning batteries is whole different game than extinguishing burning fuel. .
    Yes I noticed that all the burning Polos (and Fabias before that) were easily extinquished.. just like Breen's C3 in Turkey last year.

    Sure I agree that electric race cars should make sound (connected to throttle position). But apart from that it is entirely possible to make them spectacular. How spectacular they will be depends entirely on the rules.

  8. #55
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis44 View Post
    Or maybe if it continued with the same formula it would be more popular today. The truth is, no one knows. Do you have any data to support your quote?!
    True. All I can say is that already in early 1990's with the economic depression many teams struggled with expenses and this lead into some rule changes leading into cutting costs like limiting recce length, inserting liaisons with no service or limiting changing of big parts such as transmissions to only night breaks. And many similar rules have gone forward to cut the costs, to keep the manufacturers in the game, because in the end it's them who pay for this. The cars themselves may be more expensive than ever, but many things around them are done cheaper.

    I'm not saying full electric is the future, but it's an option that should be explored. The manufacturers aren't willing to put money on the current rally cars as they are for a long time. Of course, historic rallying will thrive as long as there's something to burn in their engines.

    We must also accept that the sport has always changed and it will change again to keep alive.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 22nd August 2019 at 16:18.

  9. Likes: Maui J. (22nd August 2019),steve.mandzij (22nd August 2019)
  10. #56
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    Problem is that we canīt kill R5 (and others below it)
    so those "WRC E" cars must be quicker than current R5

    Speed is not problem but traveling distance without very heavy "batteries" still is.

    I own plug-in hybrid which has 300kg batteries, it goes about 20km in full gas before batteries are empty. Solution for longer range is not cheap, yet.
    E-cars are probably future but not 2020 or even 2022.
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

  11. Likes: AnttiL (22nd August 2019),the sniper (22nd August 2019),Timmy (22nd August 2019)
  12. #57
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    Yes I noticed that all the burning Polos (and Fabias before that) were easily extinquished.. just like Breen's C3 in Turkey last year.
    You try to downplay a very real concern. What happens with a petrol car burning is just the fire. If you have a fire truck you extinguish it rather easily (of course it's a problem in the middle of the forest with a hand extinguisher). Even if you extinguish by water nothing serious happens. You can do that.

    But if lithium-ion batteries start to burn just next to the fire truck it will probably won't make much difference to them burning in a remote place in the forest. Moreover if you try to extinguish it with water you will only add to the explosive power by adding hydrogen to the fire. If this happens somewhere in the forest it's much worse than with the petrol car because you can't effectively stop the fire from spreading until you cover all of that and the surroundings with a thick foam. For that you need very serious hardware. Something like airport fire trucks.

    What is worst about that is that lithium-ion batteries like to start burning long time after they are damaged. This is what can never happen with petrol car. It can't simply start to burn in parc ferme in the middle of the night. The electric car can.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    You try to downplay a very real concern. What happens with a petrol car burning is just the fire. If you have a fire truck you extinguish it rather easily (of course it's a problem in the middle of the forest with a hand extinguisher). Even if you extinguish by water nothing serious happens. You can do that.

    But if lithium-ion batteries start to burn just next to the fire truck it will probably won't make much difference to them burning in a remote place in the forest. Moreover if you try to extinguish it with water you will only add to the explosive power by adding hydrogen to the fire. If this happens somewhere in the forest it's much worse than with the petrol car because you can't effectively stop the fire from spreading until you cover all of that and the surroundings with a thick foam. For that you need very serious hardware. Something like airport fire trucks.

    What is worst about that is that lithium-ion batteries like to start burning long time after they are damaged. This is what can never happen with petrol car. It can't simply start to burn in parc ferme in the middle of the night. The electric car can.
    You try to upplay a concern.

    As you said yourself and as proved by all the recent rally car fires, they can't stop the fire for petrol cars either, unless they stop next to a fire truck like Veiby in Portugal. So what happens is that the car burns until there is nothing to burn and all that is done is keep the fire from spreading. Which is the same that would be done with battery fire.

    Yes the battery fire will burn longer and with higher temperature. But if you know you have batteries that can take fire you use fire-extinguishers applicable for that (foam, CO2, various versions with particles) that keep it from becoming too intense. For spreading in forest water on surroundings will work just fine.

    Batteries catch fire if they are damaged or if they overheat. In high performance electric car battery temperature management is one of the most important systems so yes that has to be designed properly. For damage you off course have to focus on protecting the battery. Which again has to be focused on but in a car with rollcage and lot of empty space (no engine/exhaust etc, no rearseats++) it should be possible. Civilian battery cars don't burn everywhere around in crashes, quite the opposite. Yes they don't "race", but again they don't have rollcages++ either.

    And here we are again to the fire actually starting (if it does) it's not like it's nuclear fuel burning, keep it from spreading at let it burn.. just like you do with petrol rally car.

    Btw. the argument about fire starting later is also funny, cause that's exactly what happened to Breen in Turkey.

  15. #59
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post

    Btw. the argument about fire starting later is also funny, cause that's exactly what happened to Breen in Turkey.
    Well the difference was that Breen was driving the car. Petrol cars always have a risk of fire when they're ignited. But electric car could lit up hours after being shut down.

    There's still challenges to be tackled with electric cars.

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  17. #60
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