How good were D. Hill and J. Villeneuve?

[henners88]

The problem is that Williams lost just about everything after 1997. The Newey cars were so well designed, even people like Hill and Villeneuve could win in them. Suddenly Newey was gone, the works engine, too and I doubt Winfield payed as much as Rothmans. There was a resurgence with BMW, but even then it was more the engine and the Michelin advantage that saved them. In engineering terms they never recovered from Newey's departure.

I think that is a disrespectful comment. Hill and Villeneuve may not be on a plain with the greats of the sport but they were still world class drivers. A driver has to be capable of extracting the potential and keeping his head under pressure in order to win a WDC and there are many examples of drivers who have driven championship capable cars but failed to win under pressure.

[BDunnell]

I think that is a disrespectful comment. Hill and Villeneuve may not be on a plain with the greats of the sport but they were still world class drivers. A driver has to be capable of extracting the potential and keeping his head under pressure in order to win a WDC and there are many examples of drivers who have driven championship capable cars but failed to win under pressure.

Including some outstanding drivers, such as another Williams pedaller — Carlos Reutemann.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think that is a disrespectful comment. Hill and Villeneuve may not be on a plain with the greats of the sport but they were still world class drivers. A driver has to be capable of extracting the potential and keeping his head under pressure in order to win a WDC and there are many examples of drivers who have driven championship capable cars but failed to win under pressure.

Sorry, but Hill couldn't secure the WDC in 1994 in the best car of the field. He was beaten by Schumacher despite the chin being banned for two races and disqualified from a third and he still was in a position where a simple punt into the armco was enough to win the title. And even in his championship year he was beaten three times by Schumacher in a downright ridiculous Ferrari. Hill had no business even being mentioned in the same sentence as his father. What Villeneuve was worth, we saw once he was out of that all-conquering Williams. Even Vettel has a win in a Torro Rosso before he steam-rolled the field in the Red Bull. Villeneuve has bloody nothing. Both Hill and Villeneuve are the most ridiculous world champions ever. Schumacher had taken himself out of contention by going to a desolate Ferrari, McLaren was nowhere . Else those two would never have even gotten close to a trophy.

[zako85]

Sorry, but Hill couldn't secure the WDC in 1994 in the best car of the field. He was beaten by Schumacher despite the chin being banned for two races and disqualified from a third and he still was in a position where a simple punt into the armco was enough to win the title.

I won't argue how great or bad was Hill here, but in my personal opinion, Williams in 1994 was far from best. Schumacher's Benetton car was the faster car, however illegal it may have been. Schumacher won most races very comfortably and without being challenged a lot. By mid-season he won 6 out of 8 races. If Schumacher was not disqualified from two races and then banned from two additional races, he would have wrapped up the title pretty early in the season and it would have gone in the books as one of the seasons with a stronger single car domination.

[henners88]

Sorry, but Hill couldn't secure the WDC in 1994 in the best car of the field. He was beaten by Schumacher despite the chin being banned for two races and disqualified from a third and he still was in a position where a simple punt into the armco was enough to win the title. And even in his championship year he was beaten three times by Schumacher in a downright ridiculous Ferrari. Hill had no business even being mentioned in the same sentence as his father. What Villeneuve was worth, we saw once he was out of that all-conquering Williams. Even Vettel has a win in a Torro Rosso before he steam-rolled the field in the Red Bull. Villeneuve has bloody nothing. Both Hill and Villeneuve are the most ridiculous world champions ever. Schumacher had taken himself out of contention by going to a desolate Ferrari, McLaren was nowhere . Else those two would never have even gotten close to a trophy.

What a load of old blinkered tripe. I'm not even going to bother wasting any more time.

[Ranger]

Sorry, but Hill couldn't secure the WDC in 1994 in the best car of the field.

Best car in the field that wasn't blatantly cheating.

By most accounts it was largely thanks to Damon Hill's testing work that the car was driveable. The car was highly unstable in the first part of the season - as seen by Senna's spin in Brazil.

He was also much better than Coulthard and Mansell, despite the latter being paid 3 times as much as Hill's annual salary per race.

He was beaten by Schumacher despite the chin being banned for two races and disqualified from a third and he still was in a position where a simple punt into the armco was enough to win the title.

First of all Schumacher was more talented than Hill - no arguments there.

Hill also had some brilliant races. Suzuka 1994 was one of the finest wins under pressure you will ever see.

The countless times that Williams had extremely poor or even completely unnecessary pit-stops are overlooked by mostly everyone.

And even in his championship year he was beaten three times by Schumacher in a downright ridiculous Ferrari.

Far from ridiculous. But Schumacher was excellent that season.

Hill had no business even being mentioned in the same sentence as his father.

I lost brain cells reading this sentence.

What Villeneuve was worth, we saw once he was out of that all-conquering Williams. Even Vettel has a win in a Torro Rosso before he steam-rolled the field in the Red Bull. Villeneuve has bloody nothing. Both Hill and Villeneuve are the most ridiculous world champions ever. Schumacher had taken himself out of contention by going to a desolate Ferrari, McLaren was nowhere . Else those two would never have even gotten close to a trophy.

Driver wins championship in the best car. Who would have thought??

Just because Schumacher was the most talented of them does not mean the other drivers were 'ridiculous' and did not deserve to win the titles they did.

Mika Hakkinen's first two wins were absolute gifts. He wouldn't have won the title without the fastest car either. His 1999 season was about equal with Damon Hill's 1995. He got beaten by Coulthard in all but one race they both finished in 2001. Does that make him ridiculous too?

Villeneuve's later career was pretty average but at no point did he have a front-running car beyond 1997.

As for the useless Monza comparison, Bourdais qualified fourth for that race and had his clutch fail on the SC start, losing a lap. He later set the second fastest lap of the race. Excellent as that win was, it was a front-running car that weekend. The fact that Massa, Kubica, Hamilton and Raikkonen started well down the field helped too.

[jens]

I remember watching races at the time and to me it often sounds unfair, when it is claimed that Villeneuve "showed nothing" once he was out of a top car. In my view his seasons in 1999-2000 in the BAR were absolutely fabulous. During that time a strong argument would have been made that JV was among the Top3-4 drivers on the grid. Yes, he scored zero points in 1999, but only because the car had atrocious reliability. Worse than any other car I can remember. However, JV was often challenging for points before retirements.

From 2001 he started going downhill a bit, struggling against Panis. But in his prime Villeneuve was very competitive.

[Don Capps]

Sorry, but Hill couldn't secure the WDC in 1994 in the best car of the field. He was beaten by Schumacher despite the chin being banned for two races and disqualified from a third and he still was in a position where a simple punt into the armco was enough to win the title. And even in his championship year he was beaten three times by Schumacher in a downright ridiculous Ferrari. Hill had no business even being mentioned in the same sentence as his father. What Villeneuve was worth, we saw once he was out of that all-conquering Williams. Even Vettel has a win in a Torro Rosso before he steam-rolled the field in the Red Bull. Villeneuve has bloody nothing. Both Hill and Villeneuve are the most ridiculous world champions ever. Schumacher had taken himself out of contention by going to a desolate Ferrari, McLaren was nowhere . Else those two would never have even gotten close to a trophy.

Please, we beg of you to please not hold back and let us know how you really and truly feel about Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve!

[D28]

... Villeneuve has bloody nothing. Both Hill and Villeneuve are the most ridiculous world champions ever.

Ridiculous compared to whom Mike Hawthorn, James Hunt, Keke Rosberg?
I would not label any WC ridiculous, the rules are well known at the outset and there is no asterisk saying the winner had a vastly superior car.
JV accomplishments before he ever got to F1 are impressive enough, Indy winner and CART champion, when CART really could be mentioned in the same breath as F1.
He is in stellar company as winner of 2 of the 3 Graham Hill Triple events (WC, Indy500, Le Mans) He was the last man with a realistic chance at achieving this, and though he didn't I can't see anyone else doing so either.

[SGWilko]

Sorry, but Hill couldn't secure the WDC in 1994 in the best car of the field.

That's right - the car that the undoubted best driver of the moment - Senna - was losing to Michael in.......

Then the whole team has the upheaval of Senna's death, the legal aspects etc.

Not to mention the fuel flow irregularities, option 13, launch etc that the Benetton had..........