Future of F1.

[steveaki13]

Right bare with me here.

I was reading the rumours of Caterham & Marussia having some of the weakest driver line ups for many years, I assume in order to aquire money and secure the teams futures. Now whatever we feel about the drivers that must be the most important thing.

The same can also be said to an extent with Force India if Bruno Senna is signed to Force India. There are clearly going to be some good F1 drivers around with no drive. Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Petrov. etc.

While reading this it made me think about the state of F1 and how some of the currant teams and potential new teams will enter and survive in F1 for the longer term.

Now while not Invincible the top teams are clearly in a decent position to stay in F1, but looking down the grid some teams are less than likely to be around for long. Afterall in F1 history how many teams last 20 years?

Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren I would all expect to stay in F1 for the next few years and longer. Even if Red Bull sells up its now a well run team and I believe would carry on.

Now the teams behind that could last anything from 1 or 2 seasons up to 5-10 years probably.

Mercedes- Well if they dont get success will they just sell or just quite like BMW, Lotus/Renault/whatever they end up are not secure either.

Williams are a long term team but as time passes they appear to be weakening and after Frank quits will Williams F1 be able to continue? Debateable.

As for the rest they are small teams. Sauber, Force India, Toro Rosso could all faulter in the next few seasons.

As for Marussia & Caterham they are prone every season to financial issues and folding.


Afterall that my point is this. F1 is hugely expensive and we have discussed this many times before, but if money gets tight again and a few Manufacturers start quitting again and a few of the small teams fold, soon we could end up with only 5 teams left of the currant lineup.

So is there any chance of new teams being able to join F1. We have seen Caterham, Marussia, HRT join F1 and get no where(yet). So what is F1's approach?

How can F1 get some more teams to join F1 before too much longer. Are we only going to see manufacturers joining F1 from now on, or can smaller teams still join?

Or is there a danger that all the big manufacturers leave F1 and that then meaning either the end of F1. Or will F1 change and make itself open for an influx on Private teams like 20 years ago? i.e cost cutting on a mass scale.

We heard about Lola joing F1 in 2014 a couple of years ago, but I assume that was completely unfounded? Do you see any new teams joining F1 soon?

I am worried about the future of the sport I love here. I want to see more teams and cars being able to enter so that F1 can have a full grid for years to come.

[gloomyDAY]

Small teams are screwed! This issue was supposed to be rectified in 2008 with customer cars, but Williams F1 threw a hissy fit and threatened to file a law suit. Each team was to be their own constructor and that costs bucket loads of cash. Here's what I'd do:

1) The vetting process should be made to distinguish which team can do the best whilst in F1, and not who can put more money into the pocket of Max Mosley.

2) Customer cars should be allowed.

3) There has to be a spending cap!

I think the last point is the most important. Formula 1 is quickly turning into a sport that's just going to be too expensive to bother with. This kind of reminds me of the the old GT series in Japan, which of course is now defunct due to its skyrocketing price tag. Jean Todt needs to fix this problem fast because the costs for engines in 2014 alone is going to make teams like Caterham, Marussia, and Sauber go bust.

[BDunnell]

I honestly don't know what the answer is. Budget caps are notoriously hard to enforce, while Caterham and Marussia would still, surely, get through any quality threshold one might seek to see enforced. Both, to say nothing of HRT, have demonstrated just how incredibly difficult it is for a new team to 'make it' in F1 — that, to an extent, is how it should be. However, do we really want F1 to be a 'closed shop' for ever more? I'd argue not, because that way lies complete dependence upon manufacturers. As things stand, does anyone consider it truly practical for a new non-manufacturer team to come into the sport and expect to do any better than have Lotus/Caterham and Virgin/Marussia?

[steveaki13]

2) Customer cars should be allowed.

I think this could be an answer as any new teams these days would find it quite difficult to produce an F1 car from scratch.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. Budget caps are notoriously hard to enforce, while Caterham and Marussia would still, surely, get through any quality threshold one might seek to see enforced. Both, to say nothing of HRT, have demonstrated just how incredibly difficult it is for a new team to 'make it' in F1 — that, to an extent, is how it should be. However, do we really want F1 to be a 'closed shop' for ever more? I'd argue not, because that way lies complete dependence upon manufacturers. As things stand, does anyone consider it truly practical for a new non-manufacturer team to come into the sport and expect to do any better than have Lotus/Caterham and Virgin/Marussia?

Good points.

Exactly what I fear. F1 has now become so expensive we are looking at a manufacturer lock in, with only new manufacturers being able to replace old ones. It becomes clear that these teams are quite fickle. BMW & Toyota for example.

I also agree sadly that F1 as it is now can hardly ever have a new team that isnt manufacturer back or run.

As for the answer I am not sure. All I know is I think it needs to be changed soon.

[jens]

Oh, the future of F1. Just happened to already write in another thread about the depth of the midfield drivers and possible prospects. : But in terms of teams...

Well, while discussing anything, it comes to mind that the whole world is like one organism. And we need to take a look at the big picture to guess, what could happen. For instance, the future of the economy and European Union is rather unclear, so F1 racing could keep suffering from some tough times as well. And this will influence the health of the teams. We have seen the struggle of Moto GP and WRC. In this context F1 has done well to hold onto 20-24 participants consistently for a long time already. But obviously they have to be careful.

The idea of customer cars has been going around for some time. But F1 likes to define itself as a leader of innovation, not a spec-series (with 3-4 chassis designers and all others being customers, like in many other series). So maybe they will simply opt for standardizing even more parts, so that every team has at least something to completely design on their own. By and large it has been going in that direction recently. For example Force India buys the whole drivetrain in addition to the engine - in fact, they have been doing so since 2009. So maybe in the future the teams will develop mainly aerodynamics and everything else is bought in. But the customer parts will be made further cheaper, perhaps even spec.

In Moto GP there is a big dilemma whether the future are the expensive GP-machines or CRT-bikes. It may not be far, when F1 will have to start thinking about something along the lines as well.

[zako85]

Allowing new teams to use customer cars will be unfair to teams like Sauber or Williams who spend a lot of money to design their own chassis. One compromise decision could be to allow customer chassis to be used only for the period of say two years and only by a brand new team. I fear though that such system will be gamed by some teams. I also don't think that customer cars will eradicate rampant favoring of the pay drivers. Just look at teams like Williams or Sauber in 2013, who should have money to get by without pay drivers.

[BDunnell]

The sad thing is that significant elements of this entire discussion could apply to almost any significant motorsport series. In the background is the fact that the majority of major championships, whether international or national, have been forced to adopt artificial means of equalising performance and spicing the racing up — DRS, weight penalties, turbo boost changes, reverse grids, tyre restrictions, explicit performance balancing and so on. Gimmicky they may be, and sometimes totally unnecessary, but one cannot deny that certain series had become boring to all but the most devoted aficionado — and I say that as what I'd consider to be a 'proper' enthusiast myself. So, what's next for F1 in this sense?

[Hawkmoon]

Personally I'd like to see three things happen:

1. Equal distribution of revenue amongst all teams. Even though I'm Tifosi and always will be I don't agree with Ferrari getting more money. I also don't agree with payments being awarded based on position in the WCC. It's not fair on the small teams and even though they aren't fighting for the championship they contribute to the show and should be compensated as such. Nobody wants to see a grid made up of just Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Teams get prize money for winning races and championships so success is still rewarded but the small teams get a stable revenue base that they can build upon.

2. Customer cars are a problem with significant pros and cons. On the plus side it gives small teams a competitive package which is, on the surface, a positive. However I think Williams had a point in that if you let teams buy front running cars you could end up with only three or four chassis on the grid which isn't sustainable. Perhaps allow new teams to use a customer car for the fist two or three years to give them time to gain experience and build up their engineering base before they introduce their own car.

3. Free up the technical constraints on engines. Let the engine designers go nuts and keep them in check by limiting the capacity of fuel tanks. If the cars get too fast reduce the amount of fuel they can use. The engineers will be constantly balancing power and economy. The car manufacturers should find this enticing as fuel economy and alternate power sources a big issues for the future. I think this would create a big link between F1 and road cars that the manufacturers would be keen to exploit.

[truefan72]

Personally I'd like to see three things happen:

1. Equal distribution of revenue amongst all teams. Even though I'm Tifosi and always will be I don't agree with Ferrari getting more money. I also don't agree with payments being awarded based on position in the WCC. It's not fair on the small teams and even though they aren't fighting for the championship they contribute to the show and should be compensated as such. Nobody wants to see a grid made up of just Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Teams get prize money for winning races and championships so success is still rewarded but the small teams get a stable revenue base that they can build upon.

This to me is the most important thing and the single most impactful thing a team can benefit from

[zako85]

Equal distribution of money does sound like rewarding mediocrity. Any run out of the mill team could show up at GPs, barely quality and collect the money as well as sponsor money without making an effort to improve. I team needs to be aware that if their performance is mediocre, then it will not be on the grid forever. Do we really need a team like HRT, the way it was usually performing. hang out in F1 forever?

Certainly, the distribution of income could be made more egalitarian. I never liked it that the top teams get to collect some "extra" money that's set aside before distributing the prizes to all others.