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  1. #21
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    Yes, I agree and Flav - like Tom Walkinshaw - had a way with man management that treating drivers like a piece of turd was part of the business.

    Johnny Herbert has nothing but contempt for FB. After winning the 1995 Italian GP FB couldn't even congratulate JH but gave him a look of content.

    I can only imagine Helmut Marko has a similar relationship with Webber and if you're not the next Vettel then harsh sackings are the norm at RBR.

    Sport, in general, and particularly at elite level, is a cold and cruel business.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedge
    Yes, I agree and Flav - like Tom Walkinshaw - had a way with man management that treating drivers like a piece of turd was part of the business.

    Johnny Herbert has nothing but contempt for FB. After winning the 1995 Italian GP FB couldn't even congratulate JH but gave him a look of content.

    I can only imagine Helmut Marko has a similar relationship with Webber and if you're not the next Vettel then harsh sackings are the norm at RBR.

    Sport, in general, and particularly at elite level, is a cold and cruel business.
    Unnecessarily so, one might say. It seems to run completely counter to all generally accepted means of getting the best from people. In the cases of both Briatore and Walkinshaw — the latter of whom could surely be defined as a psychopath — it only got them so far. Marko is perhaps harder in this context to define, given that he's effectively someone else's employee. Fortunately for Webber, said employer is much better-disposed towards him than is Marko.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDunnell
    Unnecessarily so, one might say. It seems to run completely counter to all generally accepted means of getting the best from people.
    Happens a lot in football. If the manager doesn't like you or not part of his plans then you're ignored then mouth off to the media that the manager was disrespectful after you find a new club.

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  6. #24
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    Doug Nye, writing in Cooper Cars, states that John Cooper and Phil Hill simply couldn't get on well. At the 64 Austrian GP Hill wrecked his car in practice, then had another shunt with the backup car which was destroyed by fire. In the ensuing blowup, John blamed Hill for both accidents and effectively sacked him. John Love was brought in for Monza, but failed to qualify. Hill set down from the race he had won 2 of the previous 4 years. Ironically, Bruce McLaren finished 2nd in the Italian GP, a rare highlight for Cooper in the 1 1/2 litre years. Writing at the time, McLaren put it down to personality differences and showed his faith in Hill's abilities by hiring him for his Tasman team. Hill was back in the car for the 2 NA races, retiring from both and from his F1 career. Rather a sour note for a World Champion to end on.

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  8. #25
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    Nye also says that in 1965 Rindt's regular mechanic secured the throttle cable with tape, and as the engine heated up the tape softened, the cable moved and Rindt lost power. He suggests strongly that the same thing may have happened with Hill the previous year.
    Duncan Rollo

    The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Type
    Nye also says that in 1965 Rindt's regular mechanic secured the throttle cable with tape, and as the engine heated up the tape softened, the cable moved and Rindt lost power. He suggests strongly that the same thing may have happened with Hill the previous year.
    Exactly. Impossible to prove now. Odd to explain how this freelance "improvement" by the mechanic could go so long undetected. I guess Coopers was not as tight a run ship as when they were winning at will.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedge
    ...Johnny Herbert has nothing but contempt for FB. After winning the 1995 Italian GP FB couldn't even congratulate JH but gave him a look of content...
    Wedge, that is really interesting as I never knew that. Is there anyone out there who ever noticed Flav's reaction and demeanour when Fisi won on his first race for Renault at Melbourne 2005? The way I remember it, Louise goodman was walking with Flav interviewing him after the race, and Flav's whole demeanour was like "I can't believe this has happened!" as though something has gone terribly wrong. Louise seemed really surprised that Flav seemed to be falling apart, asking Flav "But... isn't that a good thing... that your driver has won?" to which Flav couldn't find anything to say, but sorta shrugged and let out a sort of high pitched "hmph!" as though he was about to have a nervous breakdown because his world has fallen apart.

    Flav really looked like he would need a valium and be spending the night in the pub drowning his deep sorrow (that the wrong driver won)


    Also, before that race, rainy quali meant Alonso started 13th. Martin Brundle interviewed him on the grid asking what kind of result was he going for, suggesting to Alonso 3rd place might be really good. Alonso basically said that would be really good, but he wasn't expecting to be that high. So when he did achieve that 3rd place, you'd have expected him to be happy. But the whole time he was on that podium, his face was like thunder! Incredibly intense... and indignant! I put it to him that the obvious reason for this intense offense and displeasure was that his team-mate was standing to his right, in 1st place. THAT WASN'T PART OF THE PLAN!

    Before that season, pundits were split about 50/50 on who would come out on top between Fisi and Alonso. F1 Racing even ran a cover on it, showing the two locked in an arm-wrestle.

    I personally believe that though Fisi isn't up with the likes of Hamilton, that he was actually capable of being a lot better than he was in a top team, and that Flav and Alonso actually understood there was every chance Fisi could indeed have risen up and subdued Alonso - especially since Trulli had done just that in 2004. Now with Fisi winning, who knows what that would do to his confidence? Hence the terrible expression on Alonso and Flav's faces.

    Fisi's season fell apart in a scarcely possible to believe way. It's incredibly obvious to anyone apart from smarmy critics like Nigel Roebuck, Alan Henry etc that Fisi's car was given inferior parts etc. There's a time when it's stretching it too much to keep saying it's a coincidence. Canada sealed that for me.
    SPAM - Going off topic to give you the deals you don't want.

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  14. #28
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    JEAN TODT, Peugeot Talbot Sport, 1993

    You'd think that after he'd led the team to win the WRC, and the Paris-Dakar four times in succession and the Le Mans 24 Hour Race with a 1-2-3, that Pug would have let him move into F1 with that same team but no.
    Peugeot went on to shoot their F1 plans in the head by first being an engine supplier for McLaren, then Jordan and finally Prost.

    It's a tale of what might have been, for Todt went on to do impressive things for Ferrari whilst Peugeot sort of dribbled out.
    The Old Republic was a stupidly run organisation which deserved to be taken over. All Hail Palpatine!

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  16. #29
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    SCHUMI, FERRARI, 2006 ITALIAN GP

    Schumi never got to formally announce his retirement in his own way. Instead Ferrari signed Kimi which was an open secret and became official via press release as the chequered flag fell and forcing Shumi to announce his retirement after the race.

    Kinda sad really. Despite his ruthlessness on the racetrack he was never in full control of his destiny and was treated like a piece of meat on a conveyor belt like any other driver.

    Quote Originally Posted by rjbetty
    Wedge, that is really interesting as I never knew that.
    He has been open about his dislike of Flavio.

    Mid 1995, Herbert famously called Schumi "Mr Mega" because he wasn't allowed to view Schumi's telemetry whereas Schumi could look at Herbert's. Behind the scenes Herbert took it up to Flav and Flav pretty much told him to STFU.

    Funnily enough Herbert wouldn't have an F1 career if it wasn't for Peter Collins who worked at Benetton as team manager.

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  18. #30
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    Walter Rohrl - Lombard RAC Rally 1982.

    He'd already claimed the Title (the last 2WD drivers Title), and was known to be not a fan of 'blind' events, as the RAC was in those days. Rothmans Opel Team Manager Tony Fall wasn't impressed with this attitude, and so sacked him! Now I can't remember if he had already signed with Lancia for 1983, but that is were he drove that year.

    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

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