Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[stefanvv]

Yeah, we live in commercial world that is a fact, like it or not, I personally don't like it. It is just not right and the idea of sport is lost somewhere with so much commercialization - the competivness in sport is now not on the field, or the road, or the track, but between the money makers. Everyone is trying to make money of it, I completely agree here.

Unfortunatelly Rally can't compete with F1 for example in commercial aspect, F1 is much more attractive for money making, it is just much more easy to make lot of money there, and this will always be so, this is something I don't understand much as it is boring race most of the time nowadays. So looks like Rally has kept something more of the sport value around all commersialization.

Lets go little back in Group B days. At these days looks like the sport has its peak of interest and is understandable. The idea of Group B was exactly this - to attract more people's interest by giving freedom to manufacturers to create as much competitive cars as they can, and it worked for awhile. AUDI made marketing icon Quattro which lasts more than 30 years and appeared very successful technology not only for Rally, but also for track racing later as much as for everyday cars. Peugeot's 205 Turbo actally has saved the company back then from bancrut I think. May be the problem with Group B was that it attracted much more people than expected and this was out of control.

Nowadays rules for Rally cars are restricted and is much harder manufacturer to create a car which will be much faster than others, there came Loeb with his perfection and this made all the difference in competitivness. It is normal some people to lost interest when some man doesn't leave room for competition, so no much interest from media, sponsors, etc, etc. But I can't blame Loeb for that, he is just that good, and this is good thing - someone to try to beat him was a great challenge for other drivers. This is something which only the dedicated Rally fan can welcome and cheer, the masses can lose interest very quickly. They wan't to see different faces with different cars every year probably.

Last 10 years are difficult to evaluate. On one hand there is Loeb with his perfection, on other only 2 manufacturers were competicg most of the time. This is another thing people may loose interest for. They want to see more different cars competing, perhaps even some from same brand their everyday car is.

I think I talk too much . Now I'll need more than 1 beer

So this is my point of view if I understood the subject right. I personally will always love Rally, no matter what, so there is not much difference to me if it is soooooo much commersialized for the masses. The most money in Rally probably should be made by torism (I think this was discussed in another topic), but also must be more attractive for manufacturers in the first place. I'm glad to have this forum for following my favorite sport.

[Rallyper]

The problem is that manufacturers hasn´t understood the marketing value of winning in rallying.
Yes, Loeb won all the time. It became a problem which we couldn´t see during the days of Makinen, McRae, Sainz, Burns, etz, because then we had competition and media was interested.

Then FIA wanted to become the BIG moderator making new era of world rallying, and failed because of lack of good decisions. Only I think, people playing airguitars all of them.

Now the situation is that market decreases, VW as only factory investing BIG money and of course, as a result, winning all the time. Boring and we have a new era of Loebish kind.

And media, well, not more interested what I can see. What happens next? OK hopefully Huyndai comes in, but we could expect both Citoen and Ford out if things going worse...

The problems goes on...

But we are a few fans loving rallying, hopefully with a handfull of competent drivers even in the future, with or without of media, money etz. (Oh I´m thirsty now...)

[Plan9]

I would imagine at the time VAG could only be see benefit from one WRC program, the cordoba proved to be the weaker car and the plug was pulled, but I am only speculating. It was still another three years before Seat went into touring cars.

I would like to know how competitive Skoda could be now in the WRC if they could produce a WRC spec car, the Fabia S2000 would arguably make the best platform for one. And the experience they have gained over the last decade in various levels in the sport. Such a thing I would imagine to be unlikely though, but I do believe that VAG has no problem with inter-brand competition, perhaps why their unleashing Porsche on Le Mans...

Interesting, I would be keen to see a Fabia WRC again but of course I have no idea if it would actually happen. Given that the Fabia has gone well in IRC/ERC I would say it would be a very good WRC car.
I was wondering if VW will use the WRC as Audi did previously (i.e learn from it then move into circuit racing) VW has mastered Dakar and now stage rallying as well with the Polo and Skoda s2000 program. I am beginning to think that VW will be in WRC until it feels it no longer needs to dominate it, then go into F1 as a engine maker (pure speculation).

[Coach 2]

So this is my point of view if I understood the subject right. I personally will always love Rally, no matter what, so there is not much difference to me if it is soooooo much commersialized for the masses. The most money in Rally probably should be made by torism (I think this was discussed in another topic), but also must be more attractive for manufacturers in the first place. I'm glad to have this forum for following my favorite sport.

Yes, me too.

[dimviii]

[dimviii]

Loeb 37.303 followers

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally3ω
@RallyingUK @danisordo @mikkowrc @sebogier very good chap, but you've missed the most popular! @Yazeed_AlRajhi has over 100k


Amazing what a high quality videos can do against wrc drivers!

[trickydicky]

The problem that WRC finds itself in is deep rooted and diverse, Loeb was a problem, but you can't blame him. The worst thing that can happen to any sport is knowing the outcome before an event has even started. This is what heppened with Loeb, but it was not his fault as such. He came across the sport at a time when competition was much reduced for a few reasons such as manufacturers pulling out, previous greats either retiring or, sadly leaving us, all at the same time, all the events becoming essentially the same, or very similar so that both he and his car could be perfected for all rallys (what I mean by this is if you drove in the era 1973 - 1995 your car was not going to be perfectly suited to events as diverse as Corsica, the Safari, and the RAC and so you would just have to settle for not winning some, or not even enter) and also local hero's/specialists in equal cars were both priced out and eventually restricted by stupid rules. In a nutshell Loeb could dominate because the conditions were perfect for domination! This reduced interest in the same way Schumachers domination of F1 made F1 less interesting. The rally's themselves have become less interesting and less of an 'event'. They are less interesting because they are shorter and too many are roughly similar. What I mean by less of an event is that between 1974 and about 2000 the WRC barely changed at all in its schedule, so people became familiar with it and the events became a big deal in the local area, drawing in fans, or spectators anyway, who otherwise weren't that bothered about motorsport but watched the rally as it was a spectacular event that passed through their local area. I bet most of the people who used to flock to the Cold du Turini at night didn't follow the rest of the championship, likewise anyone along the route of the Safari and a lot of people who watched the RAC, especially at the spectator stages. But they were there, and they were watching and it made it worthwhile for manufacturers to be involved. Dave Richards and a few other birks in the late 90's decided it was better to try and fit rallying around TV schedules and fancy service areas. And all this was lost, potentially forever. Now the 'Wales Rally GB' changed route and date like I change underwear, and the casual fan, even those in Wales, lose rack with what is going on, and lose interest. That goes without thinking about people who don't live in Wales. To them Rallying effectively has ceased to exist.
I also think it is a factor that the cars are so uninspiring. They may be spectacular in what they are actually doing, but the cars themselves (Fiesta's, DS3's, Fabia's, Polo's etc) are small granny cars that don't make the heart jump, or the imagination of a young boy run, like a Porsche, or a Subaru or a Delta or any Cosworth, an Alpine an M3, never mind a Stratos. The cars need to be bigger and be more exciting models. I still think the cars should be modified road cars. Its easier for fans to relate to that way.

[Donney]

Let it be known that I don't think Loeb was/is/will be a problem,I was just joking. Not about the beer though...

[sandokan]

Skoda is member of VW concern. VW decided go into WRC with VW Polo. Fabia is the same platform. VW doesn't want competitor from his own "garage". That's it. They are affraid of technical knowledges of czech engineers...