Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[Mintexmemory]

Why would you use snow chains if you already have winter tyres...?

Only trucks from south of Europe who are stupid enough to drive on summer tyres in Norway use that.

Winter tyres in a number of countries (including UK) just refers to a rubber compound that gives the same (or similar) level of grip at <5deg C on tarmac as a summer tyre would at >18. So on ice and compacted snow such a tyre is equally useless as a summer tyre. Not everyone has a set of studded black things in the garage!

[onemanband]

Winter tyres in a number of countries (including UK) just refers to a rubber compound that gives the same (or similar) level of grip at <5deg C on tarmac as a summer tyre would at >18. So on ice and compacted snow such a tyre is equally useless as a summer tyre. Not everyone has a set of studded black things in the garage!

That is why you should look for the alpine marking not only M+S on your winter tyres.

[Rallyper]

Winter tyres in a number of countries (including UK) just refers to a rubber compound that gives the same (or similar) level of grip at <5deg C on tarmac as a summer tyre would at >18. So on ice and compacted snow such a tyre is equally useless as a summer tyre. Not everyone has a set of studded black things in the garage!

To me M+S also means wider tread even without studs. M+S can´t mean summer tread in one country and winter tread in Scandinavia.

[skarderud]

It is no such thing as a all-season tyre. It will be bad in the summer, and dangerous at winter. Nordic wintertyres has a different rubbermix than the european wintertyres, the last one is not suitable at real icy and cold roads.

It is possible to rent proper wintertyres, atleast in norway, it is somewhere close to where the ferry/Wessel from denmark/germany lands in Oslo. Lots of danish tourists rents these when they go skiing in the mountains.
Some want to save some money and use snowchains instead, but that is an ass to drive at not snowcovered roads, and will probably brake when you need them. Its always some tourists blocking the roads up here because of this.

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[Franky]

I'm sure I and SubaruNorway are both talking about winter tires that are used in our region (Scandinavian peninsula, Finland and the Baltics). And those winter tires are very different than what majority of Europeans refer to winter tires. Like Mintex mentioned, those are just a bit softer compound summer tires

[tolx]

Indeed, tire makers produce a lot of different winter tires for almost every occasion. And they clearly differ north european winter tires from the ones suitable for central and south europe.
Northern ones are much softer, with different thread design (many small, soft blocks to get a grip). So called soft winter tires are actually a lot harder, thread resambles a combination of winter and summer tires and their main aim is to offer better traction/stability in cool and wet conditions, not proper snow/ice. Also, most of european countries don't allow studded tires, which are necessity in scandinavia. Even if want to go to Austria, where studs are allowed, I need to somehow drive around poland, where studs are prohibited. That's why i have a dillema, what to choose for next winter, because I like to put a car on track in winter too, when studless tires are sometimes powerless...
Snow chains are useful in situations like monte, where you are mostly on the dry tarmac and will encounter snow/ice only going up in mountains, when you can prepare before it.

[cali]

Indeed, tire makers produce a lot of different winter tires for almost every occasion. And they clearly differ north european winter tires from the ones suitable for central and south europe.
Northern ones are much softer, with different thread design (many small, soft blocks to get a grip). So called soft winter tires are actually a lot harder, thread resambles a combination of winter and summer tires and their main aim is to offer better traction/stability in cool and wet conditions, not proper snow/ice. Also, most of european countries don't allow studded tires, which are necessity in scandinavia. Even if want to go to Austria, where studs are allowed, I need to somehow drive around poland, where studs are prohibited. That's why i have a dillema, what to choose for next winter, because I like to put a car on track in winter too, when studless tires are sometimes powerless...
Snow chains are useful in situations like monte, where you are mostly on the dry tarmac and will encounter snow/ice only going up in mountains, when you can prepare before it.

I have been driving studless nordic winter tires for the last 10-12 years (RWD, FWD, 4WD, small cars, big cars etc). In our region the conditions change a lot but no real problems experienced. Have been spectating Rally Sweden about 4-5 times - FWD minivan studless tires, RWD minivan studded tires, 4WD cars with and without studs etc., again no issues whatsoever. You have to adapt to the car and tyre combo.

I would take studless winter tires any day - quiet and comfortable tires which are allowed throughout Europe.Universal choice for people who travel a lot. Studded tires only for specific regions - lots of ice, mountains etc.

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[hannes36]

I have been driving studless nordic winter tires for the last 10-12 years (RWD, FWD, 4WD, small cars, big cars etc). In our region the conditions change a lot but no real problems experienced. Have been spectating Rally Sweden about 4-5 times - FWD minivan studless tires, RWD minivan studded tires, 4WD cars with and without studs etc., again no issues whatsoever. You have to adapt to the car and tyre combo.

I would take studless winter tires any day - quiet and comfortable tires which are allowed throughout Europe.Universal choice for people who travel a lot. Studded tires only for specific regions - lots of ice, mountains etc.

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I think it depends where you do your driving mostly. I used studless tires (Nokian) for a winter in South-Estonia and never again. If you drive 80-90% in city and main road, then you are probably fine, but I've been situations where you just can't get up to the hill w/o studs. If we are discussing here tourists who don't have any experience in icy conditions, studs will help a lot, but of course, it all starts from driving skills and cautions.

[cali]

I think it depends where you do your driving mostly. I used studless tires (Nokian) for a winter in South-Estonia and never again. If you drive 80-90% in city and main road, then you are probably fine, but I've been situations where you just can't get up to the hill w/o studs. If we are discussing here tourists who don't have any experience in icy conditions, studs will help a lot, but of course, it all starts from driving skills and cautions.

I have clocked approx 35000 - 45000 km every year, on every thinkable road condition and still think studless are the best option. But yes, you need to understand and apply basic driving skills required to do well on slippery roads.

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[Rallyper]

So M+S means different things in different countries in Europe?

Studded tyres when driving 2WD. Studless on 4WD and mainly driving on main roads, maybe also for 2WD..