Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[skarderud]

Fallacy. You'd even have to find 4-5 crews to replace the lost Rally1 star drivers to break even.

What?
Dont understand your argument.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

What?
Dont understand your argument.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I mean there's no plausible argument that there'd be an increase in entrants. It makes sense in simple logic only. Maybe on European rounds there are a handful more local privateers, but there'd be no championship left at all for even new entrants to enter.

WRC has to go to minimum 3 continents and current Rally1 manufs have to do every round. Which privateers do you see obliging this and/or what would have to change? Nobody would be doing ~12, few even do the 6 in WRC2 or the 8 in ERC now. So I think it's a bad belief unless you dream of a second ERC where you can call the champion the best in the world.

As for my points on the current crop:

M-Sport would lose Ford support if the hybrid Puma went, so wouldn't be supporting drivers. Breen and Loeb go, Fourmaux, Greensmith and Loubet might still play. As Fiesta R5 and Rally2 homologs are up in 2024 and 26, need a new car anyway, but one that will either sell in the hundreds or please Ford to maintain an M-Sport entry.

Toyota have no Rally2 car because they're in it for the branding, not a customer outlet. Rally2 just isn't a TV sport. Evans and Ogier go, K-Rov and Lappi might occasionally play elsewhere. Worst case for your point is they build a Rally2 and keep these drivers, serious privateer opposition teams stand no 'investable' chance at the championships just like now so they don't enter.

Hyundai IMO are only even in Rally1 still because of contract obligations. They're going. They already privatised their WRC2 doings, so zero sum. Few privateer Hyundai entries as is. Neuville goes, Tanak might occasionally play and Solberg too.

Skoda, the only remaining Rally2 manufacturer developing a car but who aren't even willing to pay the current WRC2 registration fees might be tempted back, but then you'd lose Toksport - zero sum. Skoda customers wouldn't be too happy either - nobody could compete up to 2019.

For all this pontificating, it's not going to happen. More likely that Red Bull build their own Rally1 and tweak the rules to fill the Hyundai void, even if looks like a monster, or looks like a Hyundai and is still built in Alzenau.

[240RS]

Something about super rally rules doesn't rub the right way.

A competitor fails to complete half a day and still ends up in the top ten with championship points to boot. Shouldn't there be a rule that makes it virtually impossible for those not completing the entire route easily beating those who do??? Ten minutes per stage ain't enough, clearly.

Also, a competitor winning a category should ideally complete the entire course. Am old school, but that's not the point!!!

[flat_right]

Rules are okay and in a normal rally, they do their work. The problem is that rallying and also travelling to rallies that are far away is expensive and we end up with fewer drivers which results the situation you explained. Normally, even if Rally1 drivers retire, Rally2 drivers will "collect" the points while not being 30 minutes off the leader.

[AndyRAC]

Something about super rally rules doesn't rub the right way.

A competitor fails to complete half a day and still ends up in the top ten with championship points to boot. Shouldn't there be a rule that makes it virtually impossible for those not completing the entire route easily beating those who do??? Ten minutes per stage ain't enough, clearly.

Also, a competitor winning a category should ideally complete the entire course. Am old school, but that's not the point!!!

I've consistently said since Super Rally was introduced that you shouldn't finish ahead of somebody who has done the full event; I compared it to showjumping where any rider with faults finishes behind 'clean' competitors, no matter that their time was faster.

However, we're stuck with the current rules, so it is what it is......

[AnttiL]

Safari is a corner case. The WRC2 entry list was low and everyone except the top three had multi-minute-issues. I bet it's very rare to have someone skip three stages and finish on points in any other rally.

I see that Loeb is pinpointed for finishing ahead of Solberg who completed the route. In addition to driving very slowly, Solberg also had to stop on first Sunday stage and the stage was red flagged for that. He lost 14 minutes on that stage. Without red flag, it could have been also a retirement? And then he lost almost 6 minutes on the penultimate stage. Meanwhile, in the old days' Safari, Loeb could have been serviced on the fly and finished much higher.

For me the rules are fine.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re the general last day cruising / tyre-saving issue (not Safari)

How about a point for the winner of every stage on the last day and 3-2-1 on the PS ?

[J4MIE]

We got penalties for missing all 6 stages on Saturday (even though we decided to drive the first loop), so an hour was added to our time. We finished 20th overall but luckily not last. I think the penalties are fine.
You’ll always get some situations some people aren’t happy with. SR rules are part of the game, much like the rest of the sport.

[wyler]

Re the general last day cruising / tyre-saving issue (not Safari)

How about a point for the winner of every stage on the last day and 3-2-1 on the PS ?

i'd go with a point for every stage on all days.

[AnttiL]

Re the general last day cruising / tyre-saving issue (not Safari)

How about a point for the winner of every stage on the last day and 3-2-1 on the PS ?

One rally might offer just two stages on Sunday, one rally five. And the length of the stages can vary from 6 km in Wales to 80 km in Mexico.

Also, it makes everything very complicated to explain.

Also, could you score individual stage points although you don't complete the rally?